[Vision2020] Debate tonight

Wed Feb 27 11:49:28 PST 2013

I hope some of you are planning on attending the debate tonight between Andrew Sullivan and Doug Wilson. Peter Hitchens (brother of the late Christopher Hitchens) is moderating.

7:30 at SUB. There will be a 45 min public QA, and with two lines: 1 for questions for Doug Wilson, one for Andrew Sullivan. I specify this because someone (I think Tom Hansen) was sure that the QA would somehow be rigged. Come, bring your questions!

Topic: Is Homosexual Marriage Good for Society? 

Promo video: http://youtu.be/aui5APspcI8

-Daniel

Sent from iPhone 

On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:39, vision2020-request at moscow.com wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Wayne Krauss (Saundra Lund)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:39:22 -0800
> From: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> To: "'Darrell Keim'" <keim153 at gmail.com>, "'Art Deco'"
>    <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
> Message-ID: <015801ce1522$2540fb10$6fc2f130$@ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Sorry, Darrell - we're going to have to agree to disagree about this.  About
> a month ago, I did a relatively in-depth critique of Krauss' inane comments
> about what's wrong in America, and in that critique, I pointed out that I'd
> attended a forum some years back when Krauss asked intelligent comments &
> offered intelligent responses.  Unfortunately, that's behavior I've not seen
> from Krauss in quite a few years now.
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> "I agree with the sentiment he attempted to express.  Why can't we work with
> the simple rule already expressed in our countries founding document: treat
> others with basic dignity and decency. "
> 
> 
> 
> The answer to that question seems pretty clear to me:  it's because the dogs
> Krauss & his pals have chosen to lie down with don't believe in treating
> people equally.  You know the type:  those who think that their
> interpretation of the Bible allows them to condemn the LGBTQ community - and
> many other groups -- and deny them equal protection under the law. Those who
> don't support marriage equality and gender equality and equal pay for equal
> work.  Those who think that the government have no business regulating
> weapons but has every right to stick their prurient noses into the
> Constitutionally guaranteed reproductive choices of women.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what Krauss' views are on those issues, but the fact remains
> that when Krauss voluntarily choose to ally with people who are against
> those Constitutional protections, and then he makes stupid comments (I
> watched the videos Tom posted, so I'm quite aware of the context, which
> isn't quite as bad as the DN article, but still isn't good by any stretch),
> the push-back is more than deserved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saundra
> 
> 
> 
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of Darrell Keim
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:04 AM
> To: Art Deco
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
> 
> 
> 
> I happened to sit next to Wayne yesterday when someone asked him to explain
> his remarks.  He elaborated that his point was that we shouldn't need to
> have special protections for different groups.  We should hold ourselves to
> the standard of treating all people equally, which our Constitution already
> guarantees.  
> 
> 
> 
> While his quote in the paper makes him sound like an idiot (reporters have a
> way of doing this-context is SO important), I agree with the sentiment he
> attempted to express.  Why can't we work with the simple rule already
> expressed in our countries founding document: treat others with basic
> dignity and decency.  The guy is not nearly the troglodyte he is being made
> out to be.
> 
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> Aside from its gross insensitivity and ignorance the remarks provide a
> revelation about Krauss's personal feelings and the lack of comment implying
> consent by the other semi-conscious officials present, this is part of a
> longer saga.
> 
> There is hardly a month that has gone by since he took office and made a
> fool of himself starting with his participation and remarks in the Hawkins
> scandal, that Wayne Krauss hasn't provided ample evidence of the long
> circulating characterization of him that as the former manager of the
> Goodyear store he was hit in the head too hard and too many times with a
> tire iron.
> 
> 
> 
> w.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
> 
> What a horse's rear end Krauss continues to show himself to be.  Disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the article Roger Hayes referred to:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted by committee
> 
> 
> By Brandon Macz, Daily News staff writer | Posted: Tuesday, February 26,
> 2013 12:00 am 
> 
> Considering an ordinance to make housing and job discrimination based on
> sexual orientation or gender identity a criminal offense in Moscow,
> Councilor Wayne Krauss asked City Attorney Randy Fife where demands for more
> protections would end.
> 
> Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys into a business
> and being refused service would require a discrimination ordinance for
> monkey owners. 
> 
> Fife laid out for the Administrative Committee on Monday details of his
> draft ordinance. Under the ordinance, an employer would not be allowed to
> refuse to hire or fire a person for their sexual orientation or gender
> identity, or to deny an employee advancement or training on that same basis.
> It would also prevent businesses from refusing to serve a person based on
> their sexual orientation or gender identity.
> 
> On the housing side, refusal to sell, buy or rent property or to repair,
> maintain or improve it would also be prohibited if it were the result of
> such discrimination, Fife said.
> 
> Exceptions include religious entities, other governments and agencies,
> boarding houses, private clubs or institutions and two-family dwellings,
> such as duplexes, where the property owner or a relative lives in one of the
> units.
> 
> Krauss was curious about whether businesses, such as restaurants, which
> often display signs indicating their right to refuse service to anyone,
> could refuse to serve someone based on their sexual orientation or gender
> identity without disclosing that as the reason. Fife said if someone felt
> that was the reason for denial of service, they could file a complaint under
> the ordinance.
> 
> "I hate any kind of bullying whatsoever, and discrimination is a form of
> bullying, in my mind," Krauss said.
> 
> Krauss said he didn't like the idea of the city being forced to react to a
> continuous list of discriminatory grievances.
> 
> "The question is, where does it stop?" Krauss said. "Why doesn't the 14th
> Amendment cover the whole darn thing?"
> 
> The amendment says "No State shall deny to any person within its
> jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
> 
> Fife said he prepared the draft after reviewing laws already on the books in
> Sandpoint, Boise and Salt Lake City and said he favored Boise's. The
> proposed ordinance would fill a gap in the federal and state human rights
> acts.
> 
> Anyone believing themselves to be discriminated against because of their
> sexual orientation or gender identity would file a report with the Moscow
> Police Department, Fife said, which would conduct an investigation and file
> a report with the city prosecutor to validate whether the claim constitutes
> an offense under the ordinance.
> 
> If so, mediation would be attempted between the two parties by the city
> attorney with the offender facing a misdemeanor if a resolution can't be
> met. If the defendant takes remediation steps, the penalty could be reduced
> to an infraction. Should both parties settle, the charge would be dismissed.
> 
> "You want compliance, not punishment. That's the goal," Fife said, adding
> the criminal process might do better in a separate council resolution.
> 
> Fife said pushes on the municipal level could force the issue in the Idaho
> Legislature, which has historically never passed an amendment to its human
> rights act covering sexual orientation and gender identity out of committee.
> 
> "That's not going to happen, so we'll continue to legislate morality,"
> Krauss said.
> 
> The draft ordinance will be reviewed by the city's Fair and Affordable
> Housing and Human Rights commissions before returning to the Administrative
> Committee to forward the draft to the full council.
> 
> More Well No. 9 problems
> 
> Public Works Director Les MacDonald reported the recently reinstalled Well
> No. 9 pump and motor have to be removed again after testing Friday knocked
> out power to the well house. Once power was restored, a ground fault was
> detected, which means something is short-circuiting the electricity being
> channeled through the pump and motor, he said.
> 
> "It means we're in a different situation than before," MacDonald said.
> 
> The pump was shut down in June when it stopped functioning and the motor was
> sent to be repaired by Alstra Technologies in Tempe, Ariz. It was
> reinstalled in late September, but was shut down again when the electric
> current became too high and caused the protection unit to shut it down. The
> motor was returned to Alstra and the pump was analyzed by a Spokane company
> before both were tested by another manufacturer in Arizona.
> 
> The pump and motor were reinstalled in two weeks ago, but further testing in
> Moscow showed the electric current was still too high and a "whale song"
> noise occurred when it was reconnected to the system, MacDonald said.
> Following Friday's outage, he said removal of the pump and motor by crane
> began Monday and should be completed today. He added an outside consultant
> may need to be brought in to determine the city's next move. Well No. 9 can
> produce up to 40 percent of the city's water.
> 
>  _____  
> 
> Brandon Macz can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 238
> <tel:%28208%29%20882-5561%2C%20ext.%20238> , or by email to bmacz at dnews.com.
> 
> 
> 
> And, here's the letter to the editor Roger also referred to:
> 
> 
> 
> Basic human rights
> 
> Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:00 am 
> 
> Moscow City Councilor Wayne Krauss has implied that refusing service to
> monkey owners in a business setting is the same as denying fair housing and
> job rights to residents based on their sexual orientation or gender
> identity.
> 
> As reported by Brandon Macz in "Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted," (Daily
> News, Feb. 26): "Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys
> into a business and being refused service would require a discrimination
> ordinance for monkey owners."
> 
> You must be logged in with the proper services to print this article. 
> 
> Think about what he is really saying.
> 
> Also, according to Macz, Krauss questions "legislating morality." Yet Krauss
> is forcing his own "morality" on public legislation, denying basic human
> rights to a sector of the population that he is being paid to serve.
> 
> Please, Krauss, apologize for what you said and rethink your stance.
> 
> Lisa Kliger
> 
> Moscow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of Rosemary Huskey
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:50 AM
> To: rhayes at frontier.com; 'Moscow Vision 2020'
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
> 
> 
> 
> I am gobsmacked about Wayne Krauss' remarks.  Where did he make them?  Thank
> you for letting 2020 readers know.
> 
> Rose Huskey
> 
> 
> 
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of rhayes at frontier.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:47 AM
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
> 
> 
> 
> And yesterday Wayne Krauss was quoted that offering equal protection to all
> citizens including that of sexual identity and orientation to bringing
> monkeys to a restaurant and demanding service. 
> 
> In this case crackpot... and a sad reflection on our city council. 
> 
> 
> 
> For those with short memories:
> 
> On a scale of 0 to 10 where 10 is the easiest to be hornswoggled Carscalen
> and Krauss are clearly 10s based on how Hawkins and Mr. Slime Steed (acting
> in the conflicting roles of city council person and *defacto* agent of his
> longtime associates Hawkins) hornswoggled the council into the sweetheart
> deal with the now never to be Hawkins mall against the fundamental
> interests of Idaho citizens.
> 
> How do you choose a GOP leader? From the crackpots or the corrupt?
> 
> w.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> -- 
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
> 
>  <http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg> 
> 
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