<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I hope some of you are planning on attending the debate tonight between Andrew Sullivan and Doug Wilson. Peter Hitchens (brother of the late Christopher Hitchens) is moderating.</div><div><br></div><div>7:30 at SUB. There will be a 45 min public QA, and with two lines: 1 for questions for Doug Wilson, one for Andrew Sullivan. I specify this because someone (I think Tom Hansen) was sure that the QA would somehow be rigged. Come, bring your questions!</div><div><br></div><div>Topic: Is Homosexual Marriage Good for Society? </div><div><br></div><div>Promo video: <a href="http://youtu.be/aui5APspcI8">http://youtu.be/aui5APspcI8</a></div><div><br></div><div>-Daniel<br><br>Sent from iPhone </div><div><br>On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:39, <a href="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com">vision2020-request@moscow.com</a> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit</span><br><span> <a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020</a></span><br><span>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com">vision2020-request@moscow.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>You can reach the person managing the list at</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:vision2020-owner@moscow.com">vision2020-owner@moscow.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific</span><br><span>than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Today's Topics:</span><br><span></span><br><span> 1. Re: Wayne Krauss (Saundra Lund)</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>----------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 1</span><br><span>Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:39:22 -0800</span><br><span>From: "Saundra Lund" <<a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>></span><br><span>To: "'Darrell Keim'" <<a href="mailto:keim153@gmail.com">keim153@gmail.com</a>>, "'Art Deco'"</span><br><span> <<a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss</span><br><span>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:015801ce1522$2540fb10$6fc2f130$@ssl1.fastmail.fm">015801ce1522$2540fb10$6fc2f130$@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"</span><br><span></span><br><span>Sorry, Darrell - we're going to have to agree to disagree about this. About</span><br><span>a month ago, I did a relatively in-depth critique of Krauss' inane comments</span><br><span>about what's wrong in America, and in that critique, I pointed out that I'd</span><br><span>attended a forum some years back when Krauss asked intelligent comments &</span><br><span>offered intelligent responses. Unfortunately, that's behavior I've not seen</span><br><span>from Krauss in quite a few years now.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>You wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><span>"I agree with the sentiment he attempted to express. Why can't we work with</span><br><span>the simple rule already expressed in our countries founding document: treat</span><br><span>others with basic dignity and decency. "</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>The answer to that question seems pretty clear to me: it's because the dogs</span><br><span>Krauss & his pals have chosen to lie down with don't believe in treating</span><br><span>people equally. You know the type: those who think that their</span><br><span>interpretation of the Bible allows them to condemn the LGBTQ community - and</span><br><span>many other groups -- and deny them equal protection under the law. Those who</span><br><span>don't support marriage equality and gender equality and equal pay for equal</span><br><span>work. Those who think that the government have no business regulating</span><br><span>weapons but has every right to stick their prurient noses into the</span><br><span>Constitutionally guaranteed reproductive choices of women.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>I have no idea what Krauss' views are on those issues, but the fact remains</span><br><span>that when Krauss voluntarily choose to ally with people who are against</span><br><span>those Constitutional protections, and then he makes stupid comments (I</span><br><span>watched the videos Tom posted, so I'm quite aware of the context, which</span><br><span>isn't quite as bad as the DN article, but still isn't good by any stretch),</span><br><span>the push-back is more than deserved.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Saundra</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>From: <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]</span><br><span>On Behalf Of Darrell Keim</span><br><span>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:04 AM</span><br><span>To: Art Deco</span><br><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>I happened to sit next to Wayne yesterday when someone asked him to explain</span><br><span>his remarks. He elaborated that his point was that we shouldn't need to</span><br><span>have special protections for different groups. We should hold ourselves to</span><br><span>the standard of treating all people equally, which our Constitution already</span><br><span>guarantees. </span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>While his quote in the paper makes him sound like an idiot (reporters have a</span><br><span>way of doing this-context is SO important), I agree with the sentiment he</span><br><span>attempted to express. Why can't we work with the simple rule already</span><br><span>expressed in our countries founding document: treat others with basic</span><br><span>dignity and decency. The guy is not nearly the troglodyte he is being made</span><br><span>out to be.</span><br><span></span><br><span>On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Art Deco <<a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><span>Aside from its gross insensitivity and ignorance the remarks provide a</span><br><span>revelation about Krauss's personal feelings and the lack of comment implying</span><br><span>consent by the other semi-conscious officials present, this is part of a</span><br><span>longer saga.</span><br><span></span><br><span>There is hardly a month that has gone by since he took office and made a</span><br><span>fool of himself starting with his participation and remarks in the Hawkins</span><br><span>scandal, that Wayne Krauss hasn't provided ample evidence of the long</span><br><span>circulating characterization of him that as the former manager of the</span><br><span>Goodyear store he was hit in the head too hard and too many times with a</span><br><span>tire iron.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>w.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Saundra Lund <<a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>></span><br><span>wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><span>What a horse's rear end Krauss continues to show himself to be. Disgusting.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Here's the article Roger Hayes referred to:</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted by committee</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>By Brandon Macz, Daily News staff writer | Posted: Tuesday, February 26,</span><br><span>2013 12:00 am </span><br><span></span><br><span>Considering an ordinance to make housing and job discrimination based on</span><br><span>sexual orientation or gender identity a criminal offense in Moscow,</span><br><span>Councilor Wayne Krauss asked City Attorney Randy Fife where demands for more</span><br><span>protections would end.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys into a business</span><br><span>and being refused service would require a discrimination ordinance for</span><br><span>monkey owners. </span><br><span></span><br><span>Fife laid out for the Administrative Committee on Monday details of his</span><br><span>draft ordinance. Under the ordinance, an employer would not be allowed to</span><br><span>refuse to hire or fire a person for their sexual orientation or gender</span><br><span>identity, or to deny an employee advancement or training on that same basis.</span><br><span>It would also prevent businesses from refusing to serve a person based on</span><br><span>their sexual orientation or gender identity.</span><br><span></span><br><span>On the housing side, refusal to sell, buy or rent property or to repair,</span><br><span>maintain or improve it would also be prohibited if it were the result of</span><br><span>such discrimination, Fife said.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Exceptions include religious entities, other governments and agencies,</span><br><span>boarding houses, private clubs or institutions and two-family dwellings,</span><br><span>such as duplexes, where the property owner or a relative lives in one of the</span><br><span>units.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Krauss was curious about whether businesses, such as restaurants, which</span><br><span>often display signs indicating their right to refuse service to anyone,</span><br><span>could refuse to serve someone based on their sexual orientation or gender</span><br><span>identity without disclosing that as the reason. Fife said if someone felt</span><br><span>that was the reason for denial of service, they could file a complaint under</span><br><span>the ordinance.</span><br><span></span><br><span>"I hate any kind of bullying whatsoever, and discrimination is a form of</span><br><span>bullying, in my mind," Krauss said.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Krauss said he didn't like the idea of the city being forced to react to a</span><br><span>continuous list of discriminatory grievances.</span><br><span></span><br><span>"The question is, where does it stop?" Krauss said. "Why doesn't the 14th</span><br><span>Amendment cover the whole darn thing?"</span><br><span></span><br><span>The amendment says "No State shall deny to any person within its</span><br><span>jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."</span><br><span></span><br><span>Fife said he prepared the draft after reviewing laws already on the books in</span><br><span>Sandpoint, Boise and Salt Lake City and said he favored Boise's. The</span><br><span>proposed ordinance would fill a gap in the federal and state human rights</span><br><span>acts.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Anyone believing themselves to be discriminated against because of their</span><br><span>sexual orientation or gender identity would file a report with the Moscow</span><br><span>Police Department, Fife said, which would conduct an investigation and file</span><br><span>a report with the city prosecutor to validate whether the claim constitutes</span><br><span>an offense under the ordinance.</span><br><span></span><br><span>If so, mediation would be attempted between the two parties by the city</span><br><span>attorney with the offender facing a misdemeanor if a resolution can't be</span><br><span>met. If the defendant takes remediation steps, the penalty could be reduced</span><br><span>to an infraction. Should both parties settle, the charge would be dismissed.</span><br><span></span><br><span>"You want compliance, not punishment. That's the goal," Fife said, adding</span><br><span>the criminal process might do better in a separate council resolution.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Fife said pushes on the municipal level could force the issue in the Idaho</span><br><span>Legislature, which has historically never passed an amendment to its human</span><br><span>rights act covering sexual orientation and gender identity out of committee.</span><br><span></span><br><span>"That's not going to happen, so we'll continue to legislate morality,"</span><br><span>Krauss said.</span><br><span></span><br><span>The draft ordinance will be reviewed by the city's Fair and Affordable</span><br><span>Housing and Human Rights commissions before returning to the Administrative</span><br><span>Committee to forward the draft to the full council.</span><br><span></span><br><span>More Well No. 9 problems</span><br><span></span><br><span>Public Works Director Les MacDonald reported the recently reinstalled Well</span><br><span>No. 9 pump and motor have to be removed again after testing Friday knocked</span><br><span>out power to the well house. Once power was restored, a ground fault was</span><br><span>detected, which means something is short-circuiting the electricity being</span><br><span>channeled through the pump and motor, he said.</span><br><span></span><br><span>"It means we're in a different situation than before," MacDonald said.</span><br><span></span><br><span>The pump was shut down in June when it stopped functioning and the motor was</span><br><span>sent to be repaired by Alstra Technologies in Tempe, Ariz. It was</span><br><span>reinstalled in late September, but was shut down again when the electric</span><br><span>current became too high and caused the protection unit to shut it down. The</span><br><span>motor was returned to Alstra and the pump was analyzed by a Spokane company</span><br><span>before both were tested by another manufacturer in Arizona.</span><br><span></span><br><span>The pump and motor were reinstalled in two weeks ago, but further testing in</span><br><span>Moscow showed the electric current was still too high and a "whale song"</span><br><span>noise occurred when it was reconnected to the system, MacDonald said.</span><br><span>Following Friday's outage, he said removal of the pump and motor by crane</span><br><span>began Monday and should be completed today. He added an outside consultant</span><br><span>may need to be brought in to determine the city's next move. Well No. 9 can</span><br><span>produce up to 40 percent of the city's water.</span><br><span></span><br><span> _____ </span><br><span></span><br><span>Brandon Macz can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 238</span><br><span><tel:%28208%29%20882-5561%2C%20ext.%20238> , or by email to <a href="mailto:bmacz@dnews.com">bmacz@dnews.com</a>.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>And, here's the letter to the editor Roger also referred to:</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Basic human rights</span><br><span></span><br><span>Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:00 am </span><br><span></span><br><span>Moscow City Councilor Wayne Krauss has implied that refusing service to</span><br><span>monkey owners in a business setting is the same as denying fair housing and</span><br><span>job rights to residents based on their sexual orientation or gender</span><br><span>identity.</span><br><span></span><br><span>As reported by Brandon Macz in "Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted," (Daily</span><br><span>News, Feb. 26): "Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys</span><br><span>into a business and being refused service would require a discrimination</span><br><span>ordinance for monkey owners."</span><br><span></span><br><span>You must be logged in with the proper services to print this article. </span><br><span></span><br><span>Think about what he is really saying.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Also, according to Macz, Krauss questions "legislating morality." Yet Krauss</span><br><span>is forcing his own "morality" on public legislation, denying basic human</span><br><span>rights to a sector of the population that he is being paid to serve.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Please, Krauss, apologize for what you said and rethink your stance.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Lisa Kliger</span><br><span></span><br><span>Moscow</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>From: <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]</span><br><span>On Behalf Of Rosemary Huskey</span><br><span>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:50 AM</span><br><span>To: <a href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>; 'Moscow Vision 2020'</span><br><span>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>I am gobsmacked about Wayne Krauss' remarks. Where did he make them? Thank</span><br><span>you for letting 2020 readers know.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Rose Huskey</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>From: <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]</span><br><span>On Behalf Of <a href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a></span><br><span>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:47 AM</span><br><span>To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>Subject: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>And yesterday Wayne Krauss was quoted that offering equal protection to all</span><br><span>citizens including that of sexual identity and orientation to bringing</span><br><span>monkeys to a restaurant and demanding service. </span><br><span></span><br><span>In this case crackpot... and a sad reflection on our city council. </span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>For those with short memories:</span><br><span></span><br><span>On a scale of 0 to 10 where 10 is the easiest to be hornswoggled Carscalen</span><br><span>and Krauss are clearly 10s based on how Hawkins and Mr. Slime Steed (acting</span><br><span>in the conflicting roles of city council person and *defacto* agent of his</span><br><span>longtime associates Hawkins) hornswoggled the council into the sweetheart</span><br><span>deal with the now never to be Hawkins mall against the fundamental</span><br><span>interests of Idaho citizens.</span><br><span></span><br><span>How do you choose a GOP leader? From the crackpots or the corrupt?</span><br><span></span><br><span>w.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>=======================================================</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>-- </span><br><span>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)</span><br><span><a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span> <<a href="http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg">http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg</a>> </span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>=======================================================</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>-------------- next part --------------</span><br><span>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</span><br><span>URL: <<a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130227/d593a1f6/attachment.html">http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130227/d593a1f6/attachment.html</a>></span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>=======================================================</span><br><span></span><br><span>End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 80, Issue 357</span><br><span>*******************************************</span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>