[Vision2020] [a little clarification] WWJS?

Wed Feb 6 09:32:13 PST 2013

Here's the problems:

1.  It's not clear what Jesus allegedly said.  The Jesus Seminar, composed
of many of the most prominent biblical scholars today, claim that at least
85% of sayings/words attributed to Jesus in the New Testament were never
uttered by him.  Evangelists disagree -- unfortunately, evangelistic
scholarly attempts are limited to what the Bible actually says, not a
critical examination of the origins of the texts, the problems of
inconsistencies within the texts and with other historical data and
beliefs, the problems of language, the problems of the canonization of the
texts, etc.

The dueling scripture between Tom and Gary nicely offer a tiny microcosmic
peek at the problem of claiming anything about what Jesus actually said
and/or meant.

The earliest of the New Testament texts, the Synoptic Gospels were not
written until at earliest estimates about 40 years after the death of
Jesus.  If you ever have experimented with how stories change upon
repetition, especially when strong beliefs are at stake, then you would
hold all alleged sayings of Jesus suspect.

2.  Many Christians hold Jesus up as the Prince of Peace -- "peace on
Earth, Good Will Toward Man", etc.  Mnay pacifist movements are premised on
the anti conflict views which they attribute to Jesus.  On the other hand
the alleged words of Jesus have been used to justify wars and other
horrible acts of violence, torture, and death.

You pays your money, you takes your choice. Don't look to collect though as
it doesn't appear to be a bet that can be settled.

To further see what this WWJS question invokes Google:  "gun control" Jesus

Amusing, if nothing else, and telling evidence against the claim of the
Bible being the word of some perfect, all powerful God.

w.

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

> Gee, g -
>
> When you post something, post all pertinent portions (as well as its
> source), ok?
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> Matthew 10:34-42
>
> New International Version (NIV)
>
> 34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did
> not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
>
> “‘a man against his father,
>     a daughter against her mother,
> a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
> 36     a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[a<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10%3A34-42&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23454a>
> ]
>
> 37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of
> me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
>  38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of
> me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their
> life for my sake will find it.
>
> 40 “Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me
> welcomes the one who sent me.41 Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet
> will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as
> a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. 42 And if
> anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my
> disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their
> reward.”
>
> - Matthew 10:34-42
>
> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10%3A34-42&version=NIV
> -------------------------------------
>
> Your posting kinda takes on a whole new meaning now, huh?
>
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2013, at 6:36 AM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> Ah! One of my favorite pastimes, dueling Bible passages used out of
> context.
>
> *Matt. 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the
> earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."*
> **
> *g*
>
>
>  *From:* Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:39 PM
> *To:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] WWJS?
>
>  "Then Jesus said to him, 'Put your sword back into its place. For all
> who take the sword will perish by the sword.'"
>
> - Matthew 26:52-54
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
>  Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
> On Feb 5, 2013, at 9:04 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> In other words, I doubt He'd say much at all.  I don't picture him as
> someone who would get all worked up.  It would probably have something to
> do with judging the man's heart and not the weight of iron at his hip.  The
> apparent fact that you think he'd find something wrong with this is the
> part that baffles me.
>
> But then, I'm not a biblical scholar.
>
> Paul
>
> On 02/05/2013 07:34 PM, Art Deco wrote:
>
>  Somehow it appears that you missed the point of WWJS?
>
> w.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> People on this list might find this very disconcerting, but there is
>> actually nothing evil about owning a firearm, or carrying a firearm for
>> defense, or even in using a firearm not against another person or their
>> property (though they might frown on firing one off in church).  It's only
>> when you are shooting another person or their property with one that the
>> moral ambiguities arise.
>>
>> Again, because I think this point is important, "firearm" (not equal to)
>> "evil".
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 5, 2013 2:41 PM
>> *Subject:* [Vision2020] WWJS?
>>
>>  WWJS?
>>
>>
>> http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/05/arkansas-to-allow-concealed-guns-in-churches/?hpt=hp_t2
>>
>> --
>> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
>  =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>

-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com
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