[Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be easy

Sat Aug 24 11:09:27 PDT 2013

Donovan,

I don't begrudge anyone for going to the greatest country on the planet by any means to better their lives.  There is nothing but upside.  First, you have vastly more opportunity of improved quality of life compared to the shit hole country you might have fled.  Further, you automatically and for no extra cost or effort have throngs of advocates (self loathing citizens and permanent residents if you will) that want to bestow rights, benefits, and protections up on you if you have entered the country illegally.

To directly answer your questions below, No, Yes, and Not Necessarily.

-Scott

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 23:41:57 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be easy
To: thansen at moscow.com; scooterd408 at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

Scott, would you wait 20 years for 1/3 of your family to join you? Or would you just come back to the USA with all your children and spouse and ignore the laws that treat you like human trash? If everyone applied wouldn't your odds be even lower?
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

                                From:

                            Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>;                            

                                To:

                            Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>;                                                     

                                Cc:

                            Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>;                                                                             

                                Subject:

                            Re: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be easy                            

                                Sent:

                            Sat, Aug 24, 2013 5:05:53 AM                            

                                        I guess once deported, if US citizenship was a top priority for them then they'd follow the process to return to the US legally and once in the US would go through the process of applying for a green card.  If past performance is any indication of future results - 1/3rd of them would apply for and receive citizenship. If they can't be bothered and they still want to live and work in the US without being documented, then they'll cross over illegally and face deportation again. 

Originally you wrote that you support candidates who support a 'path to citizenship'. What exactly are the high level milestones if that path?  Is it something like Visa to Blue Card to Green Card to Citizenship?  Visa to Green Card to Citizenship (most common today)? Flat out Green Card (unlikely) to Citizenship?  Or just flat out gifted Citizenship (extremely
 unlikely).

-Scott
On Aug 23, 2013, at 6:11 PM, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

So, the undocumented workers don't want citizenship, huh?
How about THIS?
Courtesy of Buzzfeed at:
(far too many high-resolution photos to post here.  So, check 'em out)http://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarrasquillo/17-powerful-images-of-dreamers-blocking-a-bus-and-trying-to

17 Powerful Images Of “Dreamers” Blocking A Bus To Stop The Deportation Of Undocumented Immigrants
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon

On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

True enough, a 'path to citizenship' need to have a path leading to citizenship otherwise it's just a sound bite used for political points and has no real teeth to it.

It's not really my 'position', it's more my 'understanding' (or maybe lack thereof) regarding citizenship and immigration laws.  AFAIK, children born on US soil to undocumented parents are US citizens.  I don't take issue with this, it's specified by the 14th amendment.  Anyone who does take issue with it can file a lawsuit and have the Supreme Court widen or narrow the interpretation based upon the ideological makeup of the court.

Anyone not born a US citizen would need to follow the proper legal process in or order to become a naturalized US citizen if they wanted US citizenship.  There's no question that US immigration law is convoluted, complicated, and time consuming.  But anyone not
 following the process, won't obtain citizenship except maybe in extreme circumstances.

And as screwed up as immigration policy is presently, the issue on the table now seems to be very focused on simply / difficultly getting those who are 'undocumented' to be 'documented'.  And then once documented, they are in the system and from there they can start the long and arduous path towards citizenship if they have the will,  stamina, stomach, finances, support, etc. to do so.

-Scott

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:32:03 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be easy
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

In order to
call something "The Path to Citizenship" it must actually be a path
that leads to citizenship. 

If I understand the
position of Scott Dredge correctly, he believes that the only way a hard
working and contributing Mexican to the US economy can be a citizen in the
land his ancestors have occupied for thousands of years, is by appealing to the
United States Government and waiting 20 to 30 years. This even though he or she
is not already a citizen only because the United States Government for two
hundred years, violated its own Constitution and treaties, violated
international law, and ignored federal law, to acquire their ancestral lands
and resources through the use of illegal violence of war, rape, murder, and
physical force to leave their lands. On the other hand, if you are
white, and were simply born in the USA,
your path to citizenship was a slide down your mother's birth canal, you are
deemed worthy of US
citizenship, even if all you have ever down was collect food stamps, welfare
and never worked a day in your life. 

Sounds likes like a
twisted logic to me. 

Donovan J. Arnold

         From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
 To: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
 Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 4:07 PM
 Subject: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be
 easy

The Path to Citizenship doesn't address the root of the problem which is how do you force citizenship on people who don't want it?  It's almost as difficult as trying force democracy on the Iraqis.

http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130527/immigration-reform-path-to-citizenship-wont-be-easy

"It's certainly not a bill that we would have written ourselves,'' said 
Laura Vazquez, a legislative analyst at the National Council of La Raza,
 who nevertheless said it "makes significant improvements to our broken 
immigration system. "

"The ultimate goal of the legislation we believe is to get as many 
people to move from undocumented status into a path to citizenship,'' 
Vazquez said. "That has to be met by having a process that is real and 
accessible.''

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