[Vision2020] citizenship costs $

Sat Aug 24 09:43:42 PDT 2013

It is now $680 just to apply for citizenship. Sound doable? Try paying that when you work for less than minimum wage. 

________________________________
 From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:09 PM
Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 86, Issue 288

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be    easy
      (Scott Dredge)
   2. Re: Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be    easy
      (Tom Hansen)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 22:05:53 -0700
From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship
    won't be    easy
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS317E4F0749C83FA5E9593CCE44F0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I guess once deported, if US citizenship was a top priority for them then they'd follow the process to return to the US legally and once in the US would go through the process of applying for a green card.  If past performance is any indication of future results - 1/3rd of them would apply for and receive citizenship. If they can't be bothered and they still want to live and work in the US without being documented, then they'll cross over illegally and face deportation again. 

Originally you wrote that you support candidates who support a 'path to citizenship'. What exactly are the high level milestones if that path?  Is it something like Visa to Blue Card to Green Card to Citizenship?  Visa to Green Card to Citizenship (most common today)? Flat out Green Card (unlikely) to Citizenship?  Or just flat out gifted Citizenship (extremely unlikely).

-Scott

On Aug 23, 2013, at 6:11 PM, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

> So, the undocumented workers don't want citizenship, huh?
> 
> How about THIS?
> 
> Courtesy of Buzzfeed at:
> 
> (far too many high-resolution photos to post here.  So, check 'em out)
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarrasquillo/17-powerful-images-of-dreamers-blocking-a-bus-and-trying-to
> 
> 17 Powerful Images Of ?Dreamers? Blocking A Bus To Stop The Deportation Of Undocumented Immigrants
> 
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> 
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.moscowcares.com/
>  
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still 
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
> 
> - John Lennon
>  
> 
> 
> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> True enough, a 'path to citizenship' need to have a path leading to citizenship otherwise it's just a sound bite used for political points and has no real teeth to it.
>> 
>> It's not really my 'position', it's more my 'understanding' (or maybe lack thereof) regarding citizenship and immigration laws.  AFAIK, children born on US soil to undocumented parents are US citizens.  I don't take issue with this, it's specified by the 14th amendment.  Anyone who does take issue with it can file a lawsuit and have the Supreme Court widen or narrow the interpretation based upon the ideological makeup of the court.
>> 
>> Anyone not born a US citizen would need to follow the proper legal process in or order to become a naturalized US citizen if they wanted US citizenship.  There's no question that US immigration law is convoluted, complicated, and time consuming.  But anyone not following the process, won't obtain citizenship except maybe in extreme circumstances.
>> 
>> And as screwed up as immigration policy is presently, the issue on the table now seems to be very focused on simply / difficultly getting those who are 'undocumented' to be 'documented'.  And then once documented, they are in the system and from there they can start the long and arduous path towards citizenship if they have the will,  stamina, stomach, finances, support, etc. to do so.
>> 
>> -Scott
>> 
>> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:32:03 -0700
>> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be easy
>> To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> 
>>  
>> In order to call something "The Path to Citizenship" it must actually be a path that leads to citizenship.
>> If I understand the position of Scott Dredge correctly, he believes that the only way a hard working and contributing Mexican to the US economy can be a citizen in the land his ancestors have occupied for thousands of years, is by appealing to the United States Government and waiting 20 to 30 years. This even though he or she is not already a citizen only because the United States Government for two hundred years, violated its own Constitution and treaties, violated international law, and ignored federal law, to acquire their ancestral lands and resources through the use of illegal violence of war, rape, murder, and physical force to leave their lands. On the other hand, if you are white, and were simply born in the USA, your path to citizenship was a slide down your mother's birth canal, you are deemed worthy of US citizenship, even if all you have ever down was collect food stamps, welfare and never worked a day in your life.
>>  
>> Sounds likes like a twisted logic to me.
>>  
>> Donovan J. Arnold
>> 
>>  
>> From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>> To: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
>> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 4:07 PM
>> Subject: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be easy
>> 
>> The Path to Citizenship doesn't address the root of the problem which is how do you force citizenship on people who don't want it?  It's almost as difficult as trying force democracy on the Iraqis.
>> 
>> http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130527/immigration-reform-path-to-citizenship-wont-be-easy
>> 
>> "It's certainly not a bill that we would have written ourselves,'' said Laura Vazquez, a legislative analyst at the National Council of La Raza, who nevertheless said it "makes significant improvements to our broken immigration system. "
>> 
>> "The ultimate goal of the legislation we believe is to get as many people to move from undocumented status into a path to citizenship,'' Vazquez said. "That has to be met by having a process that is real and accessible.''
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>              http://www.fsr.net/
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>> 
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>              http://www.fsr.net/
>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 23:09:01 -0700
From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
To: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship
    won't be    easy
Message-ID: <2335819A-A991-4858-A9BD-77A049DE0110 at moscow.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I support paths to citizenship, especially the DREAM Act.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
http://www.moscowcares.com/

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still 
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Aug 23, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I guess once deported, if US citizenship was a top priority for them then they'd follow the process to return to the US legally and once in the US would go through the process of applying for a green card.  If past performance is any indication of future results - 1/3rd of them would apply for and receive citizenship. If they can't be bothered and they still want to live and work in the US without being documented, then they'll cross over illegally and face deportation again. 
> 
> Originally you wrote that you support candidates who support a 'path to citizenship'. What exactly are the high level milestones if that path?  Is it something like Visa to Blue Card to Green Card to Citizenship?  Visa to Green Card to Citizenship (most common today)? Flat out Green Card (unlikely) to Citizenship?  Or just flat out gifted Citizenship (extremely unlikely).
> 
> -Scott
> 
> On Aug 23, 2013, at 6:11 PM, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> 
>> So, the undocumented workers don't want citizenship, huh?
>> 
>> How about THIS?
>> 
>> Courtesy of Buzzfeed at:
>> 
>> (far too many high-resolution photos to post here.  So, check 'em out)
>> http://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarrasquillo/17-powerful-images-of-dreamers-blocking-a-bus-and-trying-to
>> 
>> 17 Powerful Images Of ?Dreamers? Blocking A Bus To Stop The Deportation Of Undocumented Immigrants
>> 
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>> 
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>> http://www.moscowcares.com/
>>  
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>> 
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still 
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>> 
>> - John Lennon
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> True enough, a 'path to citizenship' need to have a path leading to citizenship otherwise it's just a sound bite used for political points and has no real teeth to it.
>>> 
>>> It's not really my 'position', it's more my 'understanding' (or maybe lack thereof) regarding citizenship and immigration laws.  AFAIK, children born on US soil to undocumented parents are US citizens.  I don't take issue with this, it's specified by the 14th amendment.  Anyone who does take issue with it can file a lawsuit and have the Supreme Court widen or narrow the interpretation based upon the ideological makeup of the court.
>>> 
>>> Anyone not born a US citizen would need to follow the proper legal process in or order to become a naturalized US citizen if they wanted US citizenship.  There's no question that US immigration law is convoluted, complicated, and time consuming.  But anyone not following the process, won't obtain citizenship except maybe in extreme circumstances.
>>> 
>>> And as screwed up as immigration policy is presently, the issue on the table now seems to be very focused on simply / difficultly getting those who are 'undocumented' to be 'documented'.  And then once documented, they are in the system and from there they can start the long and arduous path towards citizenship if they have the will,  stamina, stomach, finances, support, etc. to do so.
>>> 
>>> -Scott
>>> 
>>> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:32:03 -0700
>>> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be easy
>>> To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>> In order to call something "The Path to Citizenship" it must actually be a path that leads to citizenship.
>>> If I understand the position of Scott Dredge correctly, he believes that the only way a hard working and contributing Mexican to the US economy can be a citizen in the land his ancestors have occupied for thousands of years, is by appealing to the United States Government and waiting 20 to 30 years. This even though he or she is not already a citizen only because the United States Government for two hundred years, violated its own Constitution and treaties, violated international law, and ignored federal law, to acquire their ancestral lands and resources through the use of illegal violence of war, rape, murder, and physical force to leave their lands. On the other hand, if you are white, and were simply born in the USA, your path to citizenship was a slide down your mother's birth canal, you are deemed worthy of US citizenship, even if all you have ever down was collect food stamps, welfare and never worked a day in your life.
>>>  
>>> Sounds likes like a twisted logic to me.
>>>  
>>> Donovan J. Arnold
>>> 
>>>  
>>> From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>>> To: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 4:07 PM
>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be easy
>>> 
>>> The Path to Citizenship doesn't address the root of the problem which is how do you force citizenship on people who don't want it?  It's almost as difficult as trying force democracy on the Iraqis.
>>> 
>>> http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130527/immigration-reform-path-to-citizenship-wont-be-easy
>>> 
>>> "It's certainly not a bill that we would have written ourselves,'' said Laura Vazquez, a legislative analyst at the National Council of La Raza, who nevertheless said it "makes significant improvements to our broken immigration system. "
>>> 
>>> "The ultimate goal of the legislation we believe is to get as many people to move from undocumented status into a path to citizenship,'' Vazquez said. "That has to be met by having a process that is real and accessible.''
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>              http://www.fsr.net/
>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>> 
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>              http://www.fsr.net/
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>              http://www.fsr.net/
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net/
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

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