[Vision2020] Say What!?!

Tue Sep 25 21:43:14 PDT 2012

Yep, I was going to go there eventually.  We were still hung up on how 
it was morally wrong for them to make their video and so forth.

The number one thing we could do to ease anti-US sentiment in the Middle 
East would be to withdraw our troops, go home, and keep out of their 
affairs.  Stop invading their sovereign nations and killing them like 
animals would be a good start, but I'd say withdraw our embassies, 
withdraw our aid (military or financial), and wait until they can 
convince us they are ready to open negotiations again.

Paul

On 09/25/2012 09:24 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
> Considering that the government is now admitting that the attack in 
> Benghazi was a terrorist attack, I've been amazed that all day all of 
> you have continued to argue that the video was responsible for the 
> attack and those killings.
>
> Do all of you really believe that the video, standing alone, is the 
> reason for the demonstrations? Yes, certainly it's a big part of it. 
> But you don't think that bombing the shit out of Muslim civilians has 
> nothing to do with it? Is it possible that our victims are, oh, 
> somewhat perturbed by being killed regularly by us?
>
> No, that can't be it. Douthat tells us that. The Daily News ed board 
> tells us that. No, it's the silly Muslims. They just act nutty.
>
> Yes, the video does really piss them off. But it's just the match. 
> We've been pouring gasoline all over the place, and this may have set 
> it off, but it is not the only reason for it.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:18:19 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> To: thansen at moscow.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What!?!
>
> What point are you trying to make?  That the filmmakers were 
> attempting to kill those four individuals via murder-by-extremists? 
> That's about as whacko as blaming a comedian for somebody choking to 
> death because they were eating when they laughed at one of his jokes.  
> It seems that everyone is frantically trying to lay the blame anywhere 
> but at the feet of the extremists that let some stupid YouTube trailer 
> whip them into a killing frenzy.  I'm confused as to why that is.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> *To:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:01 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Say What!?!
>
> Inciting to riot . . . resulting in the deaths of four Americans . . . 
> instigated by a video manufactured and released . . . right here in 
> the Nifty Fifty?
>
> Hmmm.
>
> 'Nuff said.
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The 
> college students are not very active in local elections (thank 
> goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
> On Sep 25, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     Not to mention the fact that the Libyans that did this didn't
>     attack the film producer, Google executives, actors in the movie,
>     or the guy that uploaded it to YouTube.  No, they decided that
>     justice would be served best by killing the ambassador of the
>     country that the person happened to live in when he put together
>     the film and uploaded the trailer for it.  To stretch your analogy
>     a bit, it would be like being blamed for walking into a bar in
>     L.A., insulting people that live in Niger, and having some
>     innocent person half-way around the world get killed for it. While
>     at the same time arguing about what a tragedy it is to say such
>     things in bars in L.A.
>
>     Paul
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com
>     <mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com>>
>     *To:* thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
>     *Cc:* viz <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, September 25, 2012 4:34 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Say What!?!
>
>     It's a poor comparison since there are two completely different
>     jurisdictions where the violence would have occurred (Los Angeles,
>     CA, USA vs Libya).  It's further a poor comparison because one is
>     'in your face' and one is youtube video.  It's nonsensical to
>     think that you can try and hide behind First Amendment rights for
>     damage / injury that result from your direct provocation and there
>     would be witnesses who could take the stand against you in
>     criminal / civil trials.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     CC: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>     From: thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
>     Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What!?!
>     Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:35:38 -0700
>     To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com <mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>
>     Which law(s) do(es) my suggested activity violate that the showing
>     of "Innocence of Muslims" doesn't?
>
>     Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
>     "Moscow Cares"
>     http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>     Tom Hansen
>     Moscow, Idaho
>
>     "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The
>     college students are not very active in local elections (thank
>     goodness!)."
>
>     - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>
>
>     On Sep 25, 2012, at 1:20 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com
>     <mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         > Tom Hansen wrote:
>         > 'The first amendment legally permits me to go into the
>         Backdoor (a bar in south
>         > central Los Angeles) and say, "Fu*k you, nig*r!"
>
>         The first amendment does not permit you to do this.  Where do
>         you get the idea that it does?
>
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