[Vision2020] Keeley vs. Wilson (Was: "Who Dat?" mysteriously turn into Romney & Middle Class)

Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Wed Sep 19 16:41:07 PDT 2012


Yes Nick, Keely did the best anyone could do. 
 
I would have argued that pedophilia is an incurable mental illness that puts children at high risk for serious harm. If Doug Wilson thinks marriage is about the welfare of children, why design, create and promote marriages that will intentionally place children and a family at the highest risk possible for the worst possible mental and physical trauma that could happen to a child? Doesn't giving a pedophile access to children negate any potential benefits they could reap from the marriage? 
 
Donovan J. Arnold
 

From: Nicholas Gier <ngier006 at gmail.com>
To: vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Cc: kjajmix1 at msn.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 2:04 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Keeley vs. Wilson (Was: "Who Dat?" mysteriously turn into Romney & Middle Class)


Hi Keeley, 

You did a great job against a dishonest and disgraceful pastor.  Below is a rebuttal to Wilson's use of the Book of Jude. 

My only quibble with the author (s) is that "sons of God" (bene elohim in Hebrew) are angels (a different word is used from them) but minor deities under the High God.  See my essay "Hebrew Henotheism" at www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/henotheism.htm.  Henotheism is an advance form of polytheism that has a executive god who rules over minor deities.  Read about the summary dismissal of the minor deities in Psalms 82.

Wish I could see more of your insights on the Vision.

Nick

http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/sodom_and_gomorrah.html

The second of the clobber passages is another reference to Sodom and Gomorrah. In the King James Version of the Bible it reads:
Note 7. When quoting the clobber passages, we have chosen to use the King James Version, because this is the translation most often quoted by Christians who use these passages against gay, lesbian, and bisexual people.
>“Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (Jude 7 (See note 7.))
When we read this verse in modern America, having been raised in a culture that despises gays and refers to them as “queer,” it is easy to assume Jude’s reference to “going after strange flesh” must mean homosexuality. For many heterosexual people, it seems unnatural or strange for a person to desire intimacy with someone of the same sex. However, well-informed theologians will tell you this is not what Jude was talking about.
At the time the book of Jude was written, many believed some of the women of Sodom had engaged in intercourse with male angels. This belief was probably derived from Genesis 6:1, 2 and 4, where we are told the “Sons of God”(angels) took the daughters of humans as wives. This was the final act which brought God’s judgment on the earth in the form of a great flood. And it seems some Jewish writers believed this was also the sin which sealed Sodom’s fate.
Note 8. For an excellent discussion of this, see Nissinen, pages 91 to 93. In these pages, Nissinen discusses Jewish writings from 200 to 1 bc which associate the sin of the people of Sodom with that of people before the flood of Noah.

Note 9. For example, see JND. Kelly, A commentary on the Epistles of Peter and of Jude (Harper and Row, New York, 1969), pages 258-259; Fred Craddock, First and Second Peter and Jude (Westminster John Knox Press, Louisville, 1995), page 139; Richard Bauckham, Jude, 2 Peter (Word Books, Waco, 1983), page 54; Michael Green, The Second Epistle General of Peter and the General Epistle of Jude (Inter-Varsity Press, Leicester, 1987), page 180; CEB. Cranfield, I and II Peter and Jude (SCM Press, London, 1960), page 159; and Richard Hays,The Moral Vision of the New Testament (Harper, San Francisco, 1996), page 404.
According to first century legend, some of the women of Sodom (and other wicked ancient cities) were thought to have had sex with beings who were made of different flesh — angelic flesh. (See note 8.) This is what Jude was referring to when he talked about “going after strange flesh.” He was referring to heterosexual sex between male angels and human women, not homosexual sex between humans. Many theologians, including many conservatives, interpret the passage this way. (See note 9.)
Again we ask, does this passage apply to the question we bring to Scripture? And we must answer that it has nothing to say about whether it is possible for two humans of the same sex to have an intimate, loving relationship with the blessing of God.

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net/
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20120919/df619579/attachment.html>


More information about the Vision2020 mailing list