[Vision2020] Gary Johnson, Libertarian Party Presidential Candidate

Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Wed Sep 12 08:27:34 PDT 2012


"Reason to believe ..." would have been better than "proof." The last
two Presidents -- one liberal, one conservative -- have had the exact
same foreign policy. Why is that? Maybe there is something we don't
know about. That's all I meant to say. Maybe our foreign policy would
be the same, no matter who is in charge because whoever is in charge
is still taking advice from the same people.

It is important to note that I have the same ill feelings about our
foreign policy (i.e. war) efforts and loss of civil liberties since
Obama has taken office as you and Sunil do. Joe

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> What would this proof that he would have done something differently look
> like?  Some kind of output from a virtual simulation?  Photographs of
> newspaper articles from an alternate reality?
>
> I mean, for example, Obama talked a good game - which is why I voted for
> him.  He failed miserably (my opinion) in this area, which is one thing I do
> know.  To his credit, I haven't seen him campaigning that he would do
> anything differently this time around.
>
> So if I want someone who might make changes in this area (not renew the
> Patriot Act, do something about Gitmo, etc) all I can go on is to look at
> those candidates that have made this issue part of their campaign.  That's
> Gary Johnson and Ron Paul, and no one else that I've seen.  So I have to
> weigh a known quantity (Obama's abysmal record on this issue) vs. an unknown
> (what some other candidate claims they will do).  In this case, it makes
> sense to vote for someone who takes my main issue that I'm interested in in
> this campaign seriously and hope (again) that they do something about it if
> elected.
>
> Paul
>
> On 09/11/2012 10:54 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>
>> I need proof that someone would have done something differently. Not
>> that I disagree with the criticism. The fact is Obama did it. Joe
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:09 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's really his stance against the Patriot Act and many of the other
>>> abuses
>>> that have happened under Bush's watch and under Obama's that I'm
>>> interested
>>> in.  I can get behind a lot of his other positions, too, but not all of
>>> them, but that's the big one for me.  Neither Obama nor Romney even care
>>> about the issue.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/11/2012 07:10 PM, Sue Hovey wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, Paul.  I always check a libertarian's stand on choice and haven't
>>>> found any who are truly libertarian in the full sense of the word.  If
>>>> leaving any civil right to the states is truly an American right, then
>>>> slavery in the South should fit that paradigm.
>>>>
>>>> Sue H.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rumelhart
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 6:59 PM
>>>> To: Vision 2020
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Gary Johnson, Libertarian Party Presidential
>>>> Candidate
>>>>
>>>> Not happy with our current President or with Mitt Romney, I decided to
>>>> look into the other candidates.
>>>>
>>>> Here is what I found out about the Libertarian Party candidate, Gary
>>>> Johnson.  He is a former Governor of New Mexico and is currently a
>>>> business man.
>>>>
>>>> Where he stands on some of the issues, condensed (from
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Gary_Johnson):
>>>>
>>>> For:
>>>> - balanced budget
>>>> - vetoing any bills with expenditures in excess of revenues
>>>> - replacing income, corporate, and estate taxes with the FairTax
>>>> proposal (a high sales tax with an "up-to-poverty" monthly "prebate")
>>>> - building new coal-fired and nuclear power plants
>>>> - clean air, clean water, conservationism
>>>> - auditing the Federal Reserve
>>>> - free trade
>>>> - tort reform and control of frivolous lawsuits in health care
>>>> - trade unions, except that he supports merit-based wages
>>>> - continuing Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, but would enact
>>>> "responsible entitlement reform"
>>>> - raising the retirement age
>>>> - cutting the military budget by 43% (back to 2003 levels)
>>>> - military intervention only as the last option
>>>> - humanitarian interventions in other countries, if emergencies
>>>> - 100% campaign finance transparency
>>>> - amendment to reverse Citizens United
>>>> - States' rights
>>>> - continued legalisation of abortion
>>>> - legalisation of marijuana
>>>> - school voucher system
>>>> - simplified legal immigration
>>>> - work visas for illegal immigrants rather than amnesty
>>>> - marriage equality for same-sex couples
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Against:
>>>> - earmarks
>>>> - TARP
>>>> - bailouts
>>>> - American Jobs Act
>>>> - "quantitative easing" (printing more money)
>>>> - government subsidies to businesses
>>>> - tariffs
>>>> - "ObamaCare"
>>>> - medicare prescription drug plan
>>>> - continued US involvement in Afghanistan
>>>> - renewing the Patriot Act
>>>> - physical or psychological torture
>>>> - due process for Guantanimo detainees
>>>> - "Americans giving up their civil rights in the name of fear"
>>>> - War on Drugs
>>>> - death penalty
>>>> - Department of Education, would abolish it at Federal level
>>>> - Federal involvement in student loans
>>>> - gun control
>>>> - fence along border with Mexico
>>>> - internet neutrality
>>>> - government regulation of marriage at all
>>>> - public funding of stem cell research
>>>> - sin taxes on cigarettes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lots of things I personally agree with, some I don't.  What do others
>>>> think?
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
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>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>> =======================================================
>
>



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