[Vision2020] Dems like secret recordings
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Tue Oct 2 22:40:26 PDT 2012
But there are two issues. The ethics of the spies and Romney's ethics.
Suppose a similar story but the video was a record of physical abuse. It isn't as if the way we came to know about the abuse could mitigate the level of blameworthiness for the abuse.
To your point: this also has little to do with the ethics of the means of the distribution of knowledge. Right. I'm not condoning those means, just making judgments based on the information.
I can and should always use all of the available information when forming judgments and making decisions.
On Oct 2, 2012, at 10:17 PM, "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
> And now you shall never again be allowed to post anything on the viz. I shall send you a dictionary. But in principle I do agree with you. I do not see this as a private conversation, one where a speaker actually has some sort of protected right to private speech. Regardless of party, comments made by candidates promoting their candidacy should be considered fair game wherever they occur..Paul asked a legitimate question, the discussion is interesting. I see no reason to denigrate the questions of any party, and I think it’s commendable that most of the comments speak to the issue of the question, not the questioner.
>
> Sue H.
>
> From: Sunil Ramalingam
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:57 PM
> Cc: vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Dems like secret recordings
>
> My, how embarrassing: 'principle,' not 'principal.'
>
> Sunil
>
> From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 21:44:53 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Dems like secret recordings
>
> I don't think it's unethical. I don't think there's an expectation of privacy at a political fundraising event; I doubt the principal could be more out of place than here. Moreover there's a public interest in knowing what a candidate for president thinks. Especially one who thinks we should speak of tax policy in quiet rooms.
>
> As for the bar in this election: It's still well above the 'McCain's black baby' or the Willie Horton campaigns.
>
> Sunil
>
> > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 19:21:43 -0700
> > From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> > To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Dems like secret recordings
> >
> >
> > It's not Romney talking about the 47% to a bunch of wealthy donors that
> > I'm referring to when I refer to ethics. It's the surreptitious taking
> > of a video and then giving it (selling it?) to a political magazine and
> > the subsequent mass media frenzy this ignited that I'm referring to.
> > That's the "low bar". He wasn't saying it in a place that he thought
> > fact-checkers would be pouring over his words. He said it in a private
> > home to a private group of donors. For all I know, he doesn't believe
> > it but said it because his prospective donors believed it.
> >
> > My remarks about Obama weren't meant to absolve Romney of whatever crime
> > he performed by being saying what he said, I just wanted to point out
> > that *all* politicians of any real calibre do the same thing. They
> > censure themselves when they might be quoted and are more direct when
> > speaking in trusted groups. Unless you are Jesus or the Dalai Lama, you
> > do the same thing, as do I.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > On 10/02/2012 03:50 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
> > > I don't see your point, Paul. Obama would do it, so it is OK for
> > > Romney to do it? People should be entitled to insult half the country
> > > if they have the expectation that that half is not listening? When you
> > > are pandering to voters in your party, you're entitled to say whatever
> > > insulting thing you wish?
> > >
> > > How is criticizing someone for insulting half the country setting the
> > > bar "too low"?
> > >
> > > You seem to have this fatalistic attitude that politicians are jerks
> > > and there is nothing we can do about it. No point criticizing Romney
> > > since Obama does the same. I say: If it is wrong, say something. Don't
> > > put up with offensive crap from politicians. I don't care who does it.
> > > It is just WRONG to insult half the country when you are running for
> > > President of the United States of America. Wrong for Obama, wrong for
> > > Romney.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> This was a private fundraiser at a private home in Boca Raton Florida.
> > >> There didn't look to be more than a dozen attendees that I could see from
> > >> the video (not counting the servants, of course). I'd say he had a
> > >> reasonable expectation that he wasn't going to be video-taped and uploaded
> > >> to YouTube.
> > >>
> > >> I would have to think that Obama would say things in such a setting that he
> > >> wouldn't want uploaded, either. You speak to your audience, especially when
> > >> it's supposed to be a closed affair.
> > >>
> > >> If this were in a public venue or was a public event, I wouldn't be talking
> > >> about ethics in this case. It doesn't matter to me, anyway, since I'm not
> > >> voting for either person. I just don't like how low the bar is in this
> > >> election.
> > >>
> > >> Paul
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
> > >> To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>;
> > >> Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 2:09 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Dems like secret recordings
> > >>
> > >> But should someone have an expectation of privacy when speaking to a large
> > >> group of supporters at a fundraising dinner. Seems to me this really isn’t
> > >> an “in ones home” issue.
> > >>
> > >> Sue Hovey
> > >>
> > >> From: Paul Rumelhart
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 1:25 PM
> > >> To: Tom Hansen ; Moscow Vision 2020
> > >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Dems like secret recordings
> > >>
> > >> I was going to ask about the ethics of secretly taping a candidate in
> > >> someone's private home when they had a real expectation of privacy, but I
> > >> didn't want to wade through the hatred. What does Obama say behind closed
> > >> doors?
> > >>
> > >> Paul
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> > >> To: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:23 AM
> > >> Subject: [Vision2020] Dems like secret recordings
> > >>
> > >> Courtesy of the Letters section of today's (October 2, 2012) and the
> > >> imagination of Moscow's Leonard Johnson.
> > >>
> > >> -------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Dems like secret recordings
> > >>
> > >> I believe it logical to assume that Democratic Party political campaign
> > >> operatives have over the past three years, at minimum, surreptitiously
> > >> recorded the statements, speeches and informal musings of every American
> > >> citizen that seemed to be potentially a Republican candidate for election to
> > >> the office of president of the United States in the November 2012 general
> > >> elections.
> > >> Leonard Johnson
> > >> Moscow, Idaho
> > >> -------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> Just because you are paranoid, Mr. Johnson, doesn't mean that they aren't
> > >> after you
> > >>
> > >> Paranoia self-destroya!
> > >>
> > >> Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .
> > >>
> > >> "Moscow Cares"
> > >> http://www.MoscowCares.com
> > >> Tom Hansen
> > >> Moscow, Idaho
> > >>
> > >> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
> > >> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
> > >>
> > >> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> =======================================================
> > >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> http://www.fsr.net
> > >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> =======================================================
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> =======================================================
> > >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> http://www.fsr.net
> > >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> =======================================================
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> =======================================================
> > >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> http://www.fsr.net
> > >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> =======================================================
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
>
> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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