<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>But there are two issues. The ethics of the spies and Romney's ethics. </div><div><br></div><div>Suppose a similar story but the video was a record of physical abuse. It isn't as if the way we came to know about the abuse could mitigate the level of blameworthiness for the abuse.</div><div><br></div><div>To your point: this also has little to do with the ethics of the means of the distribution of knowledge. Right. I'm not condoning those means, just making judgments based on the information.</div><div><br></div><div>I can and should always use all of the available information when forming judgments and making decisions.<br><br>On Oct 2, 2012, at 10:17 PM, "Sue Hovey" <<a href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">suehovey@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div>And now you shall never again be allowed to post anything on the viz.
I shall send you a dictionary. But in principle I do agree with you.
I do not see this as a private conversation, one where a speaker actually has
some sort of protected right to private speech. Regardless of party,
comments made by candidates promoting their candidacy should be considered fair
game wherever they occur..Paul asked a legitimate question, the discussion is
interesting. I see no reason to denigrate the questions of any party, and
I think it’s commendable that most of the comments speak to the issue of the
question, not the questioner. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Sue H.</div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title="sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">Sunil Ramalingam</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:57 PM</div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision 2020</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Dems like secret
recordings</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<div dir="ltr">My, how embarrassing: 'principle,' not
'principal.'<br><br>Sunil<br><br>
<div>
<div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">
From: <a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Tue, 2
Oct 2012 21:44:53 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Dems like secret
recordings<br><br>
<style><!--
.externalclass .ecxhmmessage p
{padding:0px;}
.externalclass body.ecxhmmessage
{font-size:10pt;font-family:tahoma;}
--></style>
<div dir="ltr">I don't think it's unethical. I don't think there's an expectation
of privacy at a political fundraising event; I doubt the principal could be more
out of place than here. Moreover there's a public interest in knowing what a
candidate for president thinks. Especially one who thinks we should speak of tax
policy in quiet rooms.<br><br>As for the bar in this election: It's still well
above the 'McCain's black baby' or the Willie Horton campaigns.
<br><br>Sunil<br><br>
<div>
<div id="ecxSkyDrivePlaceholder"></div>> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 19:21:43
-0700<br>> From: <a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>> To:
<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>> CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Dems like secret recordings<br>> <br>> <br>> It's not
Romney talking about the 47% to a bunch of wealthy donors that <br>> I'm
referring to when I refer to ethics. It's the surreptitious taking <br>> of a
video and then giving it (selling it?) to a political magazine and <br>> the
subsequent mass media frenzy this ignited that I'm referring to. <br>> That's
the "low bar". He wasn't saying it in a place that he thought <br>>
fact-checkers would be pouring over his words. He said it in a private <br>>
home to a private group of donors. For all I know, he doesn't believe <br>>
it but said it because his prospective donors believed it.<br>> <br>> My
remarks about Obama weren't meant to absolve Romney of whatever crime <br>>
he performed by being saying what he said, I just wanted to point out <br>>
that *all* politicians of any real calibre do the same thing. They <br>>
censure themselves when they might be quoted and are more direct when <br>>
speaking in trusted groups. Unless you are Jesus or the Dalai Lama, you <br>>
do the same thing, as do I.<br>> <br>> Paul<br>> <br>> On 10/02/2012
03:50 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>> > I don't see your point, Paul. Obama
would do it, so it is OK for<br>> > Romney to do it? People should be
entitled to insult half the country<br>> > if they have the expectation
that that half is not listening? When you<br>> > are pandering to voters
in your party, you're entitled to say whatever<br>> > insulting thing you
wish?<br>> ><br>> > How is criticizing someone for insulting half
the country setting the<br>> > bar "too low"?<br>> ><br>> >
You seem to have this fatalistic attitude that politicians are jerks<br>>
> and there is nothing we can do about it. No point criticizing
Romney<br>> > since Obama does the same. I say: If it is wrong, say
something. Don't<br>> > put up with offensive crap from politicians. I
don't care who does it.<br>> > It is just WRONG to insult half the country
when you are running for<br>> > President of the United States of America.
Wrong for Obama, wrong for<br>> > Romney.<br>> ><br>> >
Joe<br>> ><br>> > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Paul Rumelhart
<<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>> >> This was a private
fundraiser at a private home in Boca Raton Florida.<br>> >> There
didn't look to be more than a dozen attendees that I could see from<br>>
>> the video (not counting the servants, of course). I'd say he had
a<br>> >> reasonable expectation that he wasn't going to be video-taped
and uploaded<br>> >> to YouTube.<br>> >><br>> >> I
would have to think that Obama would say things in such a setting that
he<br>> >> wouldn't want uploaded, either. You speak to your audience,
especially when<br>> >> it's supposed to be a closed affair.<br>>
>><br>> >> If this were in a public venue or was a public event,
I wouldn't be talking<br>> >> about ethics in this case. It doesn't
matter to me, anyway, since I'm not<br>> >> voting for either person. I
just don't like how low the bar is in this<br>> >> election.<br>>
>><br>> >> Paul<br>> >><br>> >><br>>
>> ________________________________<br>> >> From: Sue Hovey
<<a href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">suehovey@moscow.com</a>><br>> >> To: Paul Rumelhart
<<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>; Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>>;<br>>
>> Moscow Vision 2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>> >> Sent:
Tuesday, October 2, 2012 2:09 PM<br>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Dems
like secret recordings<br>> >><br>> >> But should someone have
an expectation of privacy when speaking to a large<br>> >> group of
supporters at a fundraising dinner. Seems to me this really isn’t<br>>
>> an “in ones home” issue.<br>> >><br>> >> Sue
Hovey<br>> >><br>> >> From: Paul Rumelhart<br>> >>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 1:25 PM<br>> >> To: Tom Hansen ; Moscow
Vision 2020<br>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Dems like secret
recordings<br>> >><br>> >> I was going to ask about the ethics
of secretly taping a candidate in<br>> >> someone's private home when
they had a real expectation of privacy, but I<br>> >> didn't want to
wade through the hatred. What does Obama say behind closed<br>> >>
doors?<br>> >><br>> >> Paul<br>> >><br>>
>><br>> >> ________________________________<br>> >>
From: Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>> >> To: Moscow Vision
2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 2,
2012 11:23 AM<br>> >> Subject: [Vision2020] Dems like secret
recordings<br>> >><br>> >> Courtesy of the Letters section of
today's (October 2, 2012) and the<br>> >> imagination of Moscow's
Leonard Johnson.<br>> >><br>> >>
-------------------------------------<br>> >><br>> >><br>>
>> Dems like secret recordings<br>> >><br>> >> I believe
it logical to assume that Democratic Party political campaign<br>> >>
operatives have over the past three years, at minimum, surreptitiously<br>>
>> recorded the statements, speeches and informal musings of every
American<br>> >> citizen that seemed to be potentially a Republican
candidate for election to<br>> >> the office of president of the United
States in the November 2012 general<br>> >> elections.<br>> >>
Leonard Johnson<br>> >> Moscow, Idaho<br>> >>
-------------------------------------<br>> >><br>> >> Just
because you are paranoid, Mr. Johnson, doesn't mean that they aren't<br>>
>> after you<br>> >><br>> >> Paranoia
self-destroya!<br>> >><br>> >> Seeya at the polls, Moscow,
because . . .<br>> >><br>> >> "Moscow Cares"<br>> >>
<a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a><br>> >> Tom Hansen<br>> >> Moscow,
Idaho<br>> >><br>> >> "We're a town of about 23,000 with
10,000 college students. The college<br>> >> students are not very
active in local elections (thank goodness!)."<br>> >><br>> >>
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)<br>> >><br>> >><br>>
>> =======================================================<br>>
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> >>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> >>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>> >> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>
>> =======================================================<br>>
>><br>> >> ________________________________<br>> >>
=======================================================<br>> >> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> >> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> >>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>> >> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>
>> =======================================================<br>>
>><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >>
=======================================================<br>> >> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> >> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> >>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>> >> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>
>> =======================================================<br>>
<br>> =======================================================<br>> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> serving the communities
of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>>
<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>
=======================================================<br></div></div><br>=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of
the Palouse since 1994. <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</div></div>
<p>
</p><hr>
=======================================================<br>List services made
available by First Step Internet,<br>serving the communities of the Palouse
since
1994.<br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================</div></div></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>=======================================================</span></div></blockquote></body></html>