[Vision2020] A Tradition of Excellence? Not Really!

[deb]

Kudos, Ken!
Debi R-S
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at frontier.com>
To: "Art Deco" <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Tradition of Excellence? Not Really!


> On 11/19/2012 1:40 PM, Art Deco wrote:
>> The problem of Skinner's theories is that they work in practical 
>> applications which really, really sticks in the craw of those with 
>> "depth" theories.
>>
>> For example, in very early guided missiles, Skinner trained pigeons to 
>> accurately guide missiles to their targets using only visual cues.
>>
>> As for Skinner's "dehumanizing" black box applications of treating 
>> mental health problems, those theories combined with empathetic 
>> listeners work as well as any, in fact better than most.  Do you want 
>> results or feel good theories about the "human spirit"?
> 
> I would prefer scientific explanations that are as theoretically 
> consistent and experimentally reproducible as is possible given the 
> limits of ethical experimentation, mathematical measurement and 
> analysis, and cogent exposition.
> 
> I am not familiar with all of the details of Skinnerian experimentation 
> after Chomsky's analysis and exposition regarding Skinner's verbal 
> behavior papers, and considering it is now a half century after that 
> discussion, there may be many details to consider. On the other hand, 
> what appears to work in relatively simple and straightforward 
> applications may not reveal or render obvious to observation all of the 
> possible permutations of the underlying character and possibilities of 
> human nature.
> 
> Actually, the more relevant considerations may be rooted more deeply in 
> the animal kingdom than just humans. Beyond primates, even canids (dogs) 
> have senses of fairness and justice when they are treated differently 
> among themselves by human handlers and trainers. So, it is hardly a 
> large leap to the position that unequal treatment among human children 
> will result in feelings of unethical unfairness. For more information, 
> see Ethical Dogs in Scientific American, and the paper Wild Justice, a 
> pdf of which is online.
> 
> Electrifying the metal wire floors of rat and mice cages in 
> laboratories, and marking faces of children in classrooms, may well have 
> short-term behavioral effects on both the markees and the markers that 
> are noticeable and perhaps predictably replicable. They may also have 
> longer-term effects that are not so noticeable or desirable, even to 
> those who don't look.
> 
> Or they may have vividly memorable lifelong effects -- witness Mr. 
> Romney and his prep-school gang's hair cutting victim.
> 
> Caveat.
> 
> 
> Ken
> 
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