[Vision2020] "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child"

Fri May 25 10:31:03 PDT 2012

Sunil,

The US is not targeting civilian homes, schools, libraries, churches, grocery stores or shopping centers. It is only hitting obvious military targets of its publicly self admitted enemies. Any civilian that assists the enemy in anyway, goes to their events, goes in their tents and buildings, or occupies the space around these legitimate targets are the ones likely to get injured or killed. Those are the ones being accidentally killed, not civilians at work, play, and worship. The difference between the two is night and day. 

So, I don't think it is legitimate to call Obama a bad person. He might need to improve tactics and limit limit our targets. However, he is the President of the United States, he must do everything he possibly can to ensure the safety of Americans, even if it sometimes unfairly puts people overseas at increased risk. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child"

Donovan,

Let me be clear: I'm not saying that the people who run the program are saying, 'Let's blow that up because there are children in there.' But they are blowing up buildings and there are children and other civilians that are killed. And then they do it again and again. The fact that it does not stop is the evidence of their indifference.

Some strikes have targeted rescuers arriving on the scene of a drone attack:

http://www.newser.com/story/139091/us-drones-return-to-hit-rescuers-funerals.html

I don't believe the drone program is even run by the military, so I don't think your statement below about soldiers willfully attacking children (which I have not made) is even correct. As I understand it, the drone program is run by the CIA, so is supposed to be civilian. If I am wrong about that, I'm happy to be corrected.

One reason we have gotten crossways in the past is that you have misrepresented what I have said. Nowhere in this thread, or elsewhere, have I said that the Obama administration has targeted children specifically. However, they are killing civilians, including children, in these attacks. Please be clear about that. 

Sunil

Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 23:01:59 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child"
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

Sunil,

I don't think most people, nor I,  will believe your claims that the Obama Administration, or even the past Bush and Clinton administrations for that matter, and our soldiers, are willfully and deliberately attacking children with drones without presenting some sort of evidence to such a claim. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child"

Donovan,

I don't think they save lives, clearly they cost the lives of their victims, who are regularly civilians. And they will inspire more people to fight. What's the evidence, besides the government's self-serving claims, that they save lives?

Sunil

Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 22:44:03 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child"
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

Sunil,

I don't have a quarrel with you either. However, to claim Obama targets children with drones is an extraordinary one to say the least. And you know what they say about extraordinary claims, they need extraordinary evidence to support them, and you have provided none.

I do not contest that on occasion US military actions result in the deaths of innocent lives, including children. However, they are not intentional, and the overall net impact of drones saves more lives, good soldiers, bad soldiers, and innocent civilians, than they cost. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child"

Donovan,

I should start by saying my quarrel isn't with you, it's with Obama and his drone policy. At some point, and for me it was passed long ago, when we keep killing kids with drones, Obama doesn't have to say that. He just has to keep sending them out, and it amounts to the same thing. 

Sunil

Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 21:51:55 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child"
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

Sunil,

Do you think a drone is going to fly out of his head and kill that kid? 

Obama--"This is the Commander and Chief, send out the drones, and target all kids." 

General Smeeremall--"With pleasure, Commander!"

Cannot see that happening. But I might just lack imagination. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:20 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child"

Sadly, all men are bad who send out drones that kill children.

Sunil

Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 19:52:49 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child"

	1. "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child"--Abraham Lincoln 

Donovan J. Arnold
======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================

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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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              http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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