[Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .

Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Sun Mar 25 23:47:13 PDT 2012


Seriously?  Get some perspective, please.

Paul

On 03/25/2012 07:35 PM, Art Deco wrote:
> Rumelhart writes:
>
> "To me, the obviously right thing to do is to stop fighting them and 
> to welcome them with open arms,"
>
> Just like the Jews should have welcomed the Nazis?
>
> Delusional.
>
> w.
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 6:39 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 03/25/2012 03:34 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:
>>
>>     Paul wrote:
>>
>>     “I don't particularly care what views a person holds about
>>     antebellum slavery”
>>
>>     Bully for you.  Personally, I believe that revisionist history
>>     whitewashing the real horror of antebellum slavery is not only
>>     wrong, but it’s also incredibly offensive, disrespectful, and
>>     morally indefensible for self-professing Christians.  I subscribe
>>     to the maxim that those who don’t remember history are bound to
>>     repeat it.
>>
>
>     Great.  I'm not trying to get you to agree with the Kirk, I'm
>     trying to get you to be tolerant of the fact that they believe
>     things that you think are utter garbage.
>
>
>>     Paul also wrote:
>>
>>     “If the Intoleristas had instead been of the frame of mind of
>>     "sorry, we're not going to let you turn the Palouse into a
>>     theocracy, but we're still happy to have you as part of our
>>     community", then they might not have been so quick to accuse some
>>     of you of vandalism”
>>
>>     There ya go again with your revisionism.  The fact of the matter
>>     is that’s exactly what happened for years and years, and you can
>>     see where that got us.  Christ Church became bolder & bolder
>>     about flouting the law and bolder in their local attacks against
>>     all who disagreed with them.  For instance, Wilson et al were
>>     beyond livid that two UI historians wrote a book review refuting
>>     the nonsense in Wilson’s & Wilkin’s heavily plagiarized
>>     monograph, “Southern Slavery As It Was,” and went whining all the
>>     way to the governor not threatening the UI (you know the kind of
>>     non-threat:  the same game they’ve played at least twice in
>>     trying to get V2020 shut down, filing completely bogus zoning
>>     complaints against the UI, the “Topless & Proud” stunt using
>>     stolen UI resources – they still think that was the best prank
>>     ever, etc.), demanding “discipline” (presumably not the way they
>>     allow schools to physically discipline students) for the two
>>     profs for – gasp – actually doing their jobs & so forth.
>>
>>     Since your memory is . . . curiously selective, how about
>>     checking out:
>>
>>     http://hnn.us/articles/9142.html
>>
>>     This is the perspective of one of the “Intolerista” professors
>>     Wilson & his minions demanded be disciplined.  Note:  Ramsey
>>     certainly didn’t consider himself an “Intolerista,” but that’s
>>     the label Wilson painted him with simply for daring to disagree
>>     with Wilson’s & Wilkin’s revisionist history by writing a
>>     scholarly critique of SSAIW.  That’s the Kirk’s idea of “working
>>     together.”
>>
>
>     First of all, my memory is not selective.  I'm not trying to
>     choose a winner in this fight of yours, I'm hoping that "you
>     guys", the liberal crowd in this town that I used to have so much
>     respect for, take back the upper ground and at least try to bridge
>     this gap.  I realize that some of the Christ Church members have
>     not played nice all the time. It takes two to tango, is all I'm
>     saying.
>
>
>>     Paul, I had been concerned that you appear to post to V2020
>>     during UI working hours.  Another favorite tactic used by the
>>     Kirk to “discipline” dissenters is to “go after” UI & WSU
>>     employees in attempts to get them fired for doing things like
>>     posting to V2020 during working hours . . . and sometimes, for
>>     what they do in their personal hours (i.e., Prof. Dale Graden
>>     having the nerve to write a letter to the editor).  As a staff
>>     person, you are a much easier target than are professors.
>>
>
>     I thank you for your concern.  I will be more careful in the
>     future.  I usually only post quick simple posts when I happen to
>     be checking my personal email at work.
>
>
>>     I quit worrying, though, because since you only selectively
>>     “care” about the Constitutional freedoms that are the basis of
>>     this country, you relish attacking those of us (“you people”) who
>>     vocally disagree with attempts to use laws to wage culture wars
>>     against all who don’t share their particular flavor of
>>     Christianity.  They won’t go after you because you have never
>>     offered any substantive criticism of their antics.
>>
>
>     Your right, I don't care about Constitutional freedoms.  When have
>     I ever posted about that stupid piece of paper and it's so-called
>     "freedoms"?  I suppose it's my complete lack of compassion and
>     empathy for others that's to blame.
>
>
>>     *You are, in fact, intolerant of our beliefs and freely toss
>>     around inaccurate and dishonest stereotypes & imaginary events
>>     about those opposed to any flavor theocracy why while trying to
>>     convince us that you are some kind of “Tolerance” poster boy.*
>>
>>     Not even close, and definitely no cigar for you J
>>
>
>     Let me get this straight.  You're calling me out for being
>     intolerant of your intolerance.  I really don't know what to say
>     to that.
>
>
>>     In another post, you wrote:
>>
>>     “They coined the term, you all chose to use it as a badge of
>>     honor, and you're surprised they refer to you by that name?”
>>
>>     Huh – is that your attitude about Traynor Martin being targeted
>>     because he wore a hoody in the “wrong” neighborhood?  Or about
>>     Shaima Alawadi being targeted because she was an Iraqi woman in
>>     American who wore a hajib?  Sounds pretty close to blaming the
>>     victims to me.
>>
>
>     So, what's the connection between the death of Trayvon Martin and
>     some Christ Church members using the term "intolerista" as a
>     pejorative?  You have claimed the term as your own.  It only makes
>     sense that they would use that term when referring to you.
>
>
>>     You don’t like the fact that some of Wilson’s targets took his
>>     pejorative and accurately & appropriately redefined it – too bad
>>     for you, and too bad for Wilson.  I know he & his ilk were
>>     desperately hoping his neologism would catch on and become
>>     another weapon for his culture war.  It didn’t *because* those of
>>     us he targeted had the mother with to take the wind out of his
>>     sail – even Wikipedia booted the word & original definition out
>>     J  You *weren’t* the target, so I really don’t give a rip that
>>     you don’t like that some have claimed the weapon wielded against
>>     them.
>>
>
>     What I don't like is when you use the term as a rallying cry
>     against another group in this community.  I don't like the fight
>     that has been going on in this community, and I'm working with the
>     people I most identify with to see if I can get anyone interested
>     in stopping it.  So far, I've had zero luck.  If I were a Christ
>     Churcher, I would be trying to convince them to stop doing the
>     things they do to widen this divide.
>
>
>>     One other thing . . . in a more recent post, you wrote:
>>
>>     “When you actually converse with someone from Christ Church on
>>     these topics, you can often-times see where they are coming
>>     from.  You might not agree, but you can see where they are coming
>>     from based on their specific world view.”
>>
>>     Oh, get over yourself, Paul!  You seem to think you are the
>>     *only* one to have done so, and you couldn’t be more wrong. 
>>     Nick, Keely, Rose, and I here as well as others not here have
>>     *all *engaged in extensive discussion with Wilson and his
>>     followers over the years and had cordial relationships with some,
>>     not-so-cordial with others (i.e., I take offense at being told by
>>     one of Wilson’s head minions that God had deafened & blinded me).
>>
>>     But, intelligent people can’t get away from the fact that what
>>     they want is a theocracy so that the teeth of the law will force
>>     those of us who disagree with their moral code to follow it or Be
>>     Punished here on earth.
>>
>
>     I doubt that they are the only group in town that would institute
>     laws favorable to them if they had half a chance.  I don't want a
>     theocracy any more than you do, but I don't fault them for wanting
>     one.  They think their God demands it, or that they would have a
>     chance at saving people from eternal torment if they could get
>     that put in place.  Luckily for me, there is a political process
>     that they have to go through, and a Constitution that expressly
>     forbids much of what they would propose.
>
>>     Just as I have no interest in “hanging” with racist Kluckers or
>>     the anti-choice crowd that advocates violence or the anti-gay
>>     crowd that wants death for gays or the anti-women crowd who
>>     thinks women belong barefoot & chained to the stove with the
>>     chain only long enough to reach the bedroom, I have no interest
>>     in “hanging” with those who want nothing more here on earth than
>>     theocracy and “forced salvation” for “Believers” and
>>     “unbelievers” alike.
>>
>
>     Aside from the groups that actively promote violence, I would have
>     no problem hanging out with a group whose beliefs or ideals I
>     disagree with.  I don't see this as a bad thing.  I'd hate it if
>     everyone in the world though the exact same way I did.
>
>
>>     Does that mean I wouldn’t shove someone – anyone -- out of the
>>     way of a bus, or not turn my garden hose on their house fire, or
>>     drive past someone with car trouble?
>>
>>     Of course not, no matter how much you desperately want to
>>     convince people otherwise.
>>
>
>     I am not surprised at all that you would help someone out whose
>     ideals you disagree with.  It's the fact that "you guys" are good
>     people that really puzzles me in this.  To me, the obviously right
>     thing to do is to stop fighting them and to welcome them with open
>     arms, despite your differences.
>
>     Paul
>
>
>>     Saundra
>>
>>     *From:*Paul Rumelhart [mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com]
>>     *Sent:* Sunday, March 25, 2012 11:07 AM
>>     *To:* Tom Hansen
>>     *Cc:* Saundra Lund; vision2020
>>     *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
>>
>>     This is a nice example of the intolerance I'm talking about.  I
>>     don't particularly care what views a person holds about
>>     antebellum slavery, or who they think should be in charge of the
>>     finances in their marriage.  I'll still sit down and have a beer
>>     with them.
>>
>>     If the Intoleristas had instead been of the frame of mind of
>>     "sorry, we're not going to let you turn the Palouse into a
>>     theocracy, but we're still happy to have you as part of our
>>     community", then they might not have been so quick to accuse some
>>     of you of vandalism when they reported the incidents to the
>>     police.  Go out of your way to make yourself someone's enemy, and
>>     they will think of you first when something like that happens to
>>     them.
>>
>>     Paul
>>
>>     On 03/25/2012 04:37 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>>
>>     */Intoleristas/*
>>
>>     *(in tol er és ta), n.*
>>
>>         * A person holding anti-slavery sentiments
>>         * A committed feminist.
>>         * A supporter of the Constitution, human rights, and equality
>>           for all, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, religion,
>>           economic status, or sexual orientation.
>>         * A person with a wholesome proclivity for outing shifty
>>           hypocrites, shameless liars, and sham historians.
>>         * A person who is neither intimidated nor silenced by
>>           right-wing, theocratic bullies, or their sycophantic toadies.
>>         * A person who wears the title proudly as a reminder that
>>           he/she is about the business of democracy.
>>
>>     */"It is not so much what we are as much as what we are about."/*
>>
>>     A flash from the past . . .
>>
>>     http://www.tomandrodna.com/sounds/Intoleristas_020405.mp3
>>
>>     Who can forget . . .
>>
>>     http://www.notonthepalouse.com/documents/Crouch_LMT_071506.pdf
>>
>>     Let the whine flow . . .
>>
>>     http://www.notonthepalouse.com/Wilson_MPDcomplaint_071506.pdf
>>
>>     http://www.tomandrodna.com/stuff/Dickison_RecReq.jpg
>>
>>     http://www.tomandrodna.com/writofmandate
>>
>>     ----------------------
>>
>>     There is, literally, loads and loads more, Mr. Rumelhart . . .
>>     like letters sent from the un-pastor to then-Governor Kempthorne
>>     and then-UI President White . . . Doug "Charlie Brown" Wilson's
>>     speech at the Public Civility Forum at the Hamilton Indoor
>>     Recreation Center a few years ago . . . the Great Christ Church
>>     Debate between the Un-Pastor and the Intoleristas' own Keely Mix
>>     on KRFP.  I could go on and on and on and . . .
>>
>>     I'll jus' leevya with His Whineyness' own words . . .
>>
>>     http://www.tomandrodna.com/protest/Doug_Wilson_Liers_013107.mp3
>>
>>     Thanks for the promo, though.
>>
>>     image.jpeg
>>
>>     Seeya there, Moscow.
>>
>>     Tom Hansen
>>
>>     Wallace, Idaho
>>
>>     "If not us, who?
>>
>>     If not now, when?"
>>
>>     - Unknown
>>
>
>
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>     =======================================================
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>
>
> =======================================================
>   List services made available by First Step Internet,
>   serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                 http://www.fsr.net
>            mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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