[Vision2020] What is Wrong With this Statement . . .

Sat Mar 10 12:29:52 PST 2012

Roger,

Today that is how individuals do things is through the government. Our government is a democracy, so what the government does, is what the people are doing or allowing to happen. Christ didn't have a family. So it is not the highest feat. Sacrifice and love of your neighbors is. 

I don't believe that most Republicans are Christians. Christ said provide for the poor, care for the sick, love your neighbor, honor your elders, and pay your taxes. Republican policy strongly opposes all five. 

I am weary of anyone that has to publicly boast to be a Christian. Because it is usually done just before doing something wicked, nasty and completely against His teachings. True followers of Christ don't have to claim to be Christians, because their actions and character is the only needed proclamation of their faith. 

Donovan Arnold

From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
To: "Gier, Nicholas" <ngier at uidaho.edu>; thansen at moscow.com; Moscow Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] What is Wrong With this Statement . . .

I was talking about Jeff, not me. Personally, I do not care if someone is an atheist or not. I do care about morality. The family is the basic building block of a stable society. I care about promoting strong families.
I am not a biblical scholar, but I do not think Jesus was talking about socialism. He talked about the poor and being your brothers keeper. I think he was referring to individuals, not the government.
Must go check the ewes, I am in thel middle of lambing. One ewe had twins last night. Three more ewes could give birth at anytime.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "Gier, Nicholas" ngier at uidaho.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 13:01:59 -0800
To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com,  thansen at moscow.com, "Moscow Vision 2020" Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] What is Wrong With this Statement . . .

> Hi Roger,
> 
> Obviously you have not studied the founders of the Austrian School of Economics: Friedrich Hayek and Ludwig von Mises.  The former was a nominal Catholic but a professed agnostic.  Von Mises called Christianity a "religion of hatred" and resentment towards the rich, and argued that socialism was just a secular form of Christianity's rejection of individual worth and effort.  See the excerpts below.
> 
> As I have argued in my own work, libertarians parading around as evangelical Christians are living a contradiction.
> 
> Nick
> 
> Ludwig von Mises, Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis
> Chapter 29
> 
> One thing of course is clear, and no skilful interpretation can obscure it. Jesus' words are full of resentment against the rich, and the Apostles are no meeker in this respect. The Rich Man is condemned because he is rich, the Beggar praised because he is poor. The only reason why Jesus does not declare war against the rich and preach revenge on them is that God has said: "Revenge is mine." In God's Kingdom the poor shall be rich, but the rich shall be made to suffer. Later revisers have tried to soften the words of Christ against the rich, of which the most complete and powerful version is found in the Gospel of Luke, but there is quite enough left to support those who incite the world to hatred of the rich, revenge, murder and arson. 
> 
> Up to the time of modern Socialism no movement against private poverty which has arisen in the Christian world has failed to seek authority in Jesus, the Apostles, and the Christian Fathers, not to mention those who, like Tolstoy, made the Gospel resentment against the rich the very heart and soul of their teaching. This is a case in which the Redeemer's words bore evil seed. More harm has been done, and more blood shed, on account of them than by the persecution of heretics and the burning of witches. They have always rendered the Church defenseless against all movements which aim at destroying human society. The Church as an organization has certainly always stood on the side of those who tried to ward off communistic attack. But it could not achieve much in this struggle. For it was continually disarmed by the words: "Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the Kingdom of God."
> 
>  . . The religion which called itself the religion of love became a religion of hatred in a world that seemed ripe for happiness. Any would-be destroyers of the modern social order could count on finding a champion in Christianity.
> 
> 
> A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. 
> 
> -Greek proverb
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com on behalf of lfalen
> Sent: Fri 3/9/2012 10:45 AM
> To: Contact - thansen at moscow.com; Moscow Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] What is Wrong With this Statement . . .
>  
> I was going to respond to Keely comments, but deleted her email, so I will do it here. I know Jeff somewhat. In my opinion he is a Classical Liberal. Keely is making suppositions  that are inaccurate. Jeff is a proponent of the Austrian School of Economics. About the only thing he would have in common with Ayn Rand is the support of individual rights. I doubt that he is a devotee of Ayn Rand. Jeff is a strong proponent of family values and is religious. Ayn Rand is an athiest and a hedonist. She would basicly go with the hippie statement of " if it feels good do it". 
> As for the militia, there are several organizations that one could join if one wants to help their community in times of a disaster, such as Search and Resque and the Sheriffs Posse. therefore I do not see the need for one. However if there want to do their own thing, go for it, as long as  they continue to work with and support local authorises. Which they do. Jeffs dad is or was a cop and there are several law enforcement people associated with them. The militia is not my bag however. The Southern Poverty Law School has done some good work in combating hate groups and racism. They gave a work shop on hate groups to the Spokane County Sheriffs group.  They listed Jeff Williams as a dangerous person, with out any supporting data. Jeff has since had several meeting with the Sheriff and has gotten this resolved. They have a respect for one and other, though they may not necessarily agree in their views.
> I have friends that are involved with Paint Ball.  They do this for entertainment and use the Grange Park. This is their recreation, not my thing but that is fine as long as they clean up after themselves and do not trample too many plants. The White Pine Native Plant Society also use the park.
> There are kooks out there that break the law and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but as long a group supports and works with local authorities that should be their right. One does not have to agree with them.
> Roger
> 
> -----Original message-----
> From: Tom Hansen thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:57:55 -0800
> To: Moscow Vision 2020 Vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] What is Wrong With this Statement . . .
> 
> >  . . Found in today's (March 7, 2012) Moscow-Pullman Daily News.
> > 
> > "Jeff Williams is a classic liberal constitutional activist/educator, the chairman of the Palouse Liberty Project, and is involved with the 57th and 75th battalions of the Lightfoot Militia."
> > 
> > Seeya later, Moscow.
> > 
> > Tom Hansen
> > Post Falls, Idaho
> > 
> > "If not us, who?
> > If not now, when?"
> > 
> > - Unknown
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> 
> 
> 

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