[Vision2020] So, This is What Being a Libertarian is All About . . .

[Joe Campbell]

If the question is are the Pauls MORE libertarian than other
candidates, then this answer might lead me to say "yes." Not too
surprising. But if someone is going to take the trouble to call
himself a "libertarian" as opposed to say a "fiscal conservative,"
then he had better hold views worthy of the name. But there is no more
hot-button topic when it comes to government intrusion on private
lives than abortion. Sure it is just one example but, were the Pauls
consistent, they SHOULD be open to other ways in which the government
can tell folks what to do about their private lives, given that they
can tell them when and if to have children.

Here is a humorous fictional conversation to help illustrate my point
and why I think it defeats your reply.

Paul: Fred is tolerant and open-minded.
Joe: No he's not. He's a bigot. He is prejudiced against Puerto Ricans.
Paul: Yes but he likes African Americans, Asians, other Latinos, gays,
lesbians ... You name it. He is only prejudiced against Puerto Ricans.
All of the other candidates are prejudiced, for instance, against gays
and lesbians as well.
Joe: Well, whatever he is, Fred is NOT tolerant and open-minded. He's a bigot.

Really the Pauls view is this: Keep government out of our private
lives -- except in those cases where government intrusion into private
lives is acceptable according to my personal beliefs. EVERYONE has
that view.

I'm no libertarian but apparently when it comes to social issues I am
a LOT more libertarian than the Pauls. Likely I share some of their
personal views on abortion. But opinions about private matters like
family planning and philosophical beliefs about the origin of life
have no bearing on what others should do in their private lives. The
government should keep out of private lives unless there are obvious
harms to obvious persons. Longstanding and intractable philosophical
disputes have no place when making laws and restricting behavior.
Anyone who believes otherwise is (among other things) not a
libertarian.

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Rand and Ron Paul *are* libertarians.  They just have their panties in a
> twist about this one particular issue.  I wish they'd learn to leave it
> alone while they are campaigning, though, because it opens them up to
> criticisms like this one that ignore their other views that actually *do*
> support small government and the protection of civil liberties.  There isn't
> another Presidential contender, for example, that does more than pay
> lip-service to "small government" other than Ron Paul.  Every other
> candidate out there wants to expand Executive powers, Paul wants to reduce
> government down to the bare minimum allowed by the Constitution.  No other
> candidate is a bigger protector of civil liberties, either.  Yes, yes, I
> know, except that they want to take away the freedom of women to have the
> choice to have an abortion, blah, blah, blah.  That's exactly the point I'm
> trying to make, this one issue is gutting them right now.
>
> The Pauls have just fallen into the same trap that most everyone else has
> fallen into; they have become distracted by an emotional issue that is a
> political smoke grenade.  If they would have set this issue aside, no matter
> how important they feel it is, and stuck to their other issues they would be
> much better off.  As it is, they have fallen into a trap in the same way
> that a bunch of ravenous dogs can be distracted by tossing some red meat at
> them. Trust me, the people throwing meat at the dogs know exactly what they
> are doing, and the dogs fall for it every time.
>
> Paul
>
> On 06/27/2012 08:00 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>
>> Personally I'm not incensed. But the guy is NOT a libertarian. Someone
>> who is fiscally conservative yet doesn't mind government interference
>> in our private lives is not anti-government. He actually believes that
>> the government can help solve problems, right?
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 7:54 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tom
>>> I doubt that you would be as incensed about similar actions done by
>>> liberals. They do it all the time. I don't like it regardless  of who does
>>> it. I would favor a law that says only amendments that are germane to the
>>> main bill can be added.
>>> Roger
>>> -----Original message-----
>>> From: Tom Hansen thansen at moscow.com
>>> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:07:49 -0700
>>> To: Moscow Vision 2020 vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Subject: [Vision2020] So, This is What Being a Libertarian is All About .
>>> . .
>>>
>>>> Is this what the Libertarians' battle cry of "Less Government!" is all
>>>> about?
>>>>
>>>> Courtesy of Outside the Beltway at:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/rand-paul-trying-to-add-personhood-amendment-to-flood-insurance-bill/
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Rand Paul Trying To Add “Personhood” Amendment To Flood Insurance Bill
>>>>
>>>> WASHINGTON — Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) moved this week to hold a
>>>> noncontroversial flood insurance bill hostage until the Senate agrees that
>>>> life begins at fertilization.
>>>>
>>>> The bill, which would financially boost the National Flood Insurance
>>>> Program on the cusp of hurricane season, had been expected to pass easily in
>>>> the Senate. But since Paul on Monday offered an unrelated “fetal personhood”
>>>> amendment, which would give legal protections to fetuses from the moment of
>>>> fertilization, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) is threatening to
>>>> halt progress on the legislation.
>>>>
>>>> “I’m told last night that one of our Republican senators wants to offer
>>>> an amendment — listen to this one — wants to offer an amendment on when life
>>>> begins,” Reid said on the Senate floor Tuesday. “I am not going to put up
>>>> with that on flood insurance. I can be condemned by outside sources; my
>>>> friends can say, ‘Let them have a vote on it.’ There will not be a vote on
>>>> that on flood insurance We’ll either do flood insurance with the amendments
>>>> that deal with flood insurance, or we won’t do it. We’ll have an extension”
>>>>
>>>> Reid has allowed Republicans to attach unrelated amendments to other
>>>> important bills in the past few months. Most notably, he let the Senate vote
>>>> on a contraception-related amendment, proposed by Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), to
>>>> a transportation bill. But Reid called Paul’s measure “ridiculous” and
>>>> “outlandish,” and asked Republicans to deal with him on “their side of the
>>>> aisle.”
>>>> Paul told reporters on Tuesday afternoon that he is “just trying to get
>>>> a vote for people who elected me.”
>>>>
>>>> “Can you believe that they’re exasperated with me?” he said, responding
>>>> to criticism of his attempt to attach the unrelated amendment. “If [Reid
>>>> will] give me a freestanding vote, I’ll take a freestanding vote any time.”
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's (D-NV) response . . .
>>>>
>>>> “I am not going to put up with that on flood insurance.  I can be
>>>> condemned by outside sources — my friends can say, ‘Let them have a vote on
>>>> it.’ There will not be a vote on that on flood insurance. We’ll either do
>>>> flood insurance with the amendments that deal with flood insurance, or we
>>>> won’t do it. We’ll have an extension.”
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdw36CZSbeI
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>
>>>> "If not us, who?
>>>> If not now, when?"
>>>>
>>>> - Unknown
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>
>