[Vision2020] Borden and Universal Health Care Use the Same Business Model

Thu Jan 19 12:51:07 PST 2012

Well, while you're in a rock-throwing mood, let me remind you that
Donovan used Costco as an example tie-in to how Universal Health care
would succeed.  I just saw it differently and used a different business
to explain.  Play fair and divert some of your frustration his
direction.

So... no DMS or IRS handling your health insurance.  Ok.  We said
"universal health care" and "government".  Who WOULD be handling your
health insurance?    

Here's a better question (to demonstrate extremes)... what agency/entity
would be in charge of telling a hypochondriac that they "can't see the
doctor for the 12th time today for the sniffles"... or... what
agency/entity would be in charge of telling someone that their plastic
surgery isn't covered... or... what agency/entity would be in charge of
telling someone that their lasik surgery isn't covered...  who would get
to make the decisions on what IS and is NOT paid for by the government?

Yes, I do see success in market-driven forces in many aspects.  I
believe that private enterprise has the ability to find savings and
efficiencies where bloated bureaucracies do not.  But if you think I see
them as a solution to every problem, then you are mistaken... 

But I suggest you check your stereo-types and categorizations at the
[proverbial] door.   Many "conservatives" have nothing to do with their
political cartoon caricature counterparts.

Your question regarding police and fire care (and asking me to defend it
in a "market driven" context) makes as much sense as me asking to you
defend the TSA and their wanting to strip-search little old ladies in
wheel-chairs in a government-controlled context.

Suffice to say, if I were "King for a Day", my ideas for the police and
fire department wouldn't rest on a "for profit" model.  They would rely
on expanding things like the citizen academy and the volunteer fire
departments.  

There are many solutions that (I believe) can exist in many areas of our
society that have very little to do with pure government or pure
capitalism.

Jay

From: keely emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:18 PM
To: Jay Borden; donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; moscowcares at moscow.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: Borden and Universal Health Care Use the Same Business
Model

I'm truly dismayed at how easy it is for you to articulate a cogent
business model for the medical care of human beings.  I'm even more
dismayed that you believe, or at least feel confident suggesting that
you do, that the folks at DMV and the IRS handling your health
insurance.  They wouldn't, of course, and no amount of arguing on my end
will convince someone who holds government in disdain, as you evidently
do, that under a single-payer system, DOCTORS and other medical
professionals would manage your care -- not Brenda at DMV.

If you're so enamored of market-driven means by which to offer services
that extend the lives of "consumers," would you explain, please, your
argument for why it would be better to do away with "socialized" police
and fire care in favor of a profit-driven, free-enterprise economic
model such as you defend for healthcare?  I'm certain you're consistent
in your arguments, and I'm truly interested in how you'd argue in favor
of farming out police- and fire protection to for-profit private
contractors.  

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

________________________________

Subject: RE: Borden and Universal Health Care Use the Same Business
Model
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:47:19 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; moscowcares at moscow.com;
kjajmix1 at msn.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

I appreciate the kudos... but I'm not trying to pat myself on the back,
only to demonstrate my view.   

(And you've been more than kind in your responses... thank you).

The missing piece in your analogy (of my analogy) is that I didn't turn
around and offer free widgets to everyone, and then turn around and only
bill the people that can afford it.   On the contrary, when they want a
new widget, they'll have to pay for it.  And because they suddenly had
to pay for it, they were much more scrutinizing of how the widget was
used.  

You're trying to connect the dots of my making customers responsible for
their own widgets to Universal healthcare just "spreading the cost"
around and tossing widgets into the street for anyone to consume.

(Yes, this analogy is REALLY breaking down...)

Costco's model works because they tend to both BUY and SELL their
inventory in BULK.  They are actually intended/marketed such that they
sell to OTHER businesses (B2B), but if you're an end-customer and want
to purchase pianos in a 3-pack, that's fine too.  (Yes, I know, you can
get many merchandise items individually... but generally speaking most
of their products are larger in both VOLUME and QUANTITY... I think I
bought peanut butter from Costo 3 years ago and haven't had to go back
since...)

If you link that to Universal Health Care and point to savings.... well
I don't know if I would purchase a dozen ER visits at a time, or choose
the flu shot with "50% more!"

If you want to make a link to another enterprise and point to savings,
might I suggest Walmart.

Walmart (by several other people's description) is the "single choice"
threat moving into any territory.   Walmart succeeds because they
undercut competition (private practices) by offering lower prices.  They
engage in supplier-specific contracts with individual suppliers to offer
products that no one else can touch (semi-price-fixing)... and to sell
their products ONLY in their store.

On the flip side, because of Walmart, other retailers (doctors) can't
afford to stay in business.  (How many articles have I read where
"someone used to own the local greenhouse/nursery, but now they just
work at the Lawn & Garden at the local Walmart?")

The end result is a place that people hate to go, but have no other real
alternative (since the other choices have been destroyed), purchasing
inferior products/services that they can't stand...

Now... today, people are responsible for paying their own bills at
Walmart.  That keeps the purchasing in check (minus the Walmart
shop-a-holics).

To press the analogy further,  imagine if Walmart suddenly said "all you
can take buffet... pay one fee and take whatever you can carry off the
shelves".  

People would start to grab two or three or four of items, even though
they wouldn't need them, because the cost difference is zero.  As a
result, Walmart would have to RAISE prices to keep up with the
"flat-fee" demand... (and at this point you head on down the slippery
slope of starting to charge ONLY the more wealthy folks shopping at
Walmart, yada yada yada...)

This is an obvious deadlock debate... I see widgets, you see universal
health care, I see Walmart, you see Costco.   I have ZERO argument with
anyone who says that the current health care system needs alterations...
but I can see ZERO benefit in having the same folks that run the DMV and
the IRS suddenly managing my health insurance... I see only disaster.

Jay

From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:30 AM
To: Jay Borden; Moscow Cares; keely emerinemix
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Borden and Universal Health Care Use the Same Business Model

Jay,

I think it is great that you were able to turn a failing business. Not
many people have that gift. I think your example does relate directly to
health care, but in a way that gives credence to Universal Health Care
and highlights problems with our current system of care.

What you did to the failing widgets company is exactly what Universal
Health Care does all over the world. Our health care system is like a
business that is going broke, with unsatisfied customers because the way
it is doing business. What kind of business lasts with 13% increases in
costs annually and just keeps passing the cost to the customers? That
didn't work for your predecessor, and it isn't working for health care
either. 

The steps you took, are the ones Universal Health Care makes. First, you
lowered costs of the widget so everyone that needed one could afford it.
Universal Health Care does it the same way. It is the bulk of sales, not
the high price per unit that makes it work financially, as you well
know. The Costco model works better than the local jewelry model for
high demand products and services. 

Second, you took steps to reduce costly replacements by prevention
through education. Universal Health Care also works on this business
model. By giving people the access to education on health and behavior
and proper use of medications and treatments, the cost of repairs are
greatly reduced because the damage never occurs in the first place. 

Finally, Universal Health Care works on the business principles you
adopted of a fair contract that holds both parties accountable. Both you
and Universal Health Care pay for about 100% of damage that is not the
fault of the client. However, if the person is neglectful or uses it not
as intended they are not completely covered, but you don't make the
costs of fixing the problem beyond their ability to pay. 

I really don't see the difference between what you did with a widgets
company and what Universal Health Care does for health care. Jay, I
don't see why the taxpayers should have to use the broken business model
you had to fix than the proper working one you have now. Do you? 

Donovan Arnold

From: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
To: Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com>; keely emerinemix
<kjajmix1 at msn.com> 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] More Proof Preventative Health Care Saves

Yes, that's the decision that the previous business owner made.
(Whose name didn't sound anything like "Bay Jorden").  

While he thought he was doing good, he was ruining his company (and thus
his ability to continue servicing his customers with the product).

You can ridicule the specifics all you want, the only relevance that
translates to my point is one of human nature.  I believe (and I have
experienced the trend) that people care less when they are not directly
tied to finances.

Is there anyone on this list that rents out residential property?  Would
you say that people take more care of the apartment/house when a
security deposit is on the line?  Or would you say that people generally
take care of the facilities regardless?

Jay

From: Moscow Cares [mailto:moscowcares at moscow.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 1:26 PM
To: keely emerinemix
Cc: Jay Borden; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] More Proof Preventative Health Care Saves

According to Jay Borden:

"Turns out the problem had nothing to do with design... it was customers
not bothering to read or learn anything about proper use of the widgets,
or trying to use the widgets for a completely different purpose
altogether. 

Tack on a free replacement guarantee, and customers didn't bother to
self-educate... they just let the company "fix the problem" with the
warranty."

So, what you are telling us, Mr. Borden, is . . .

Although the customers clearly violated a product's warranty by " . . .
trying to use the widgets for a completely different purpose altogether
. . . ", the company honored the warranty and replaced the product.

That's right up there with . . .

John Smith was going into the widget business.  He would go to the
widget manufacturer, load up his truck with widgets (at $10 each), take
them back to his store, and sell them at $9 each.  This went on for a
couple months.  He was wondering why he was losing money on what he
considered to be a sound business venture.  He sought advice on what he
should do from a business advisor; let's call him Bay Jorden.  Bay
Jorden, after weeks of meticulous research into John Smith's business
practices, came up with what he considered a sure-win solution.  He
suggested to John Smith that what he needs is a . . . larger truck.

Sidebar to Mr. Borden:  Do you know if this guy is selling cars?  I have
a friend that can certainly use a new car . . . every year.

Seeya later, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Post Falls, Idaho

"If not us, who?

If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Jan 18, 2012, at 12:57 PM, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:

	Turns out the problem had nothing to do with design... it was
customers not bothering to read or learn anything about proper use of
the widgets, or trying to use the widgets for a completely different
purpose altogether.  

	Tack on a free replacement guarantee, and customers didn't
bother to self-educate... they just let the company "fix the problem"
with the warranty.

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