[Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant

Wed Jan 11 13:15:19 PST 2012

Dude, you need to chill out. I didn't say anything like what you think I
said. And you don't know me, so please don't try to speculate about my
intentions. I was trying to add some clarity but in the future I'll just
avoid you. Joe

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com> wrote:

> No, it went down the OTHER way…****
>
> ** **
>
> Wayne Fox posted an article demonstrating Santorum’s ignorance.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Tom Hansen them posted a reply that read like something from “Song of the
> South”… linking it to bigotry.****
>
> ** **
>
> I am saying that these are not the same thing.****
>
> ** **
>
> (And now you’re blurring my point and trying to trap me even further by
> adding more words into the mix…. like “well-founded views”).****
>
> ** **
>
> Being BIGOTED doesn’t mean you’re STUPID… it means you’re IGNORANT.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Being STUPID doesn’t mean you’re BIGOTED.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> If it worked like that, then we could simply draw a line on a chart and
> say, “everyone who has an IQ below 70 must be a racist, and all racists
> have an IQ below 70”.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Jay****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Joe Campbell [mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 12:12 PM
> *To:* Jay Borden
> *Cc:* Donovan Arnold; Tom Hansen; Art Deco; vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
>
> ** **
>
> I agree, Jay. But I think Tom's point went in the other direction. Being a
> bigot or racist makes one stupid or ignorant. You don't want to argue
> against that do you? Or do you think that some bigots and racists have
> intelligent, well-founded views? Joe****
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> wrote:****
>
> This is getting into a level of semantics too inane even for me…****
>
>  ****
>
> My only point is that being STUPID or IGNORANT does not necessarily make
> you a bigot or racist… as Tom Hansen seemed to be alluding to in his post.
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> Being called either into today’s world both takes power away from TRULY
> exposing those with these types of opinions, as well as unfairly damages
> folks in the process.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Jay****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 11:26 AM
> *To:* Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Art Deco
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
>
>  ****
>
> Jay,****
>
>  ****
>
> If someone is stupid, you cannot change their ignorance. ****
>
>  ****
>
> Donovan Arnold****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> *To:* Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <
> thansen at moscow.com>; Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 11:54 AM
> *Subject:* RE: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
>
>  ****
>
> No, I believe that ‘bigotry’ is a product of ignorance, not stupidity.****
>
>  ****
>
> You can’t change stupid… but you can educate yourself to a different
> degree of understanding.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Jay****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:32 AM
> *To:* Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Art Deco
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
>
>  ****
>
> So you think bigotry is branch of intelligence, Mr. Borden?****
>
>  ****
>
> Donovan Arnold****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> *To:* Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <
> thansen at moscow.com>; Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:58 AM
> *Subject:* RE: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
>
>  ****
>
> No.****
>
>  ****
>
> Jay****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:14 AM
> *To:* Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Art Deco
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
>
>  ****
>
> Isn't bigotry just a particular brand of stupidity?****
>
>  ****
>
> Donovan Arnold****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> *To:* Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; Art Deco <
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:18 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
>
>  ****
>
> Uh… what?    Don’t blur stupidity with bigotry.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Jay****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Hansen
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:42 AM
> *To:* Art Deco
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
>
>  ****
>
> Yesirree, Bubba.****
>
>  ****
>
> I mean . . . Doesn't that Prezdint Obommer know that them black folk have
> a ingrown hankerin' to shine shoes at the local mall and workin' them
> fields jus' like their great granpappies did yearin' ago . . . back on them
> warm, cozy plantations.****
>
>  ****
>
> They don't need no collidge no how.****
>
>  ****
>
> Seeya later, Moscow.****
>
>  ****
>
> Tom Hansen****
>
> Spokane, Washington****
>
>  ****
>
> "If not us, who?****
>
> If not now, when?"****
>
>  ****
>
> - Unknown****
>
>
> On Jan 10, 2012, at 8:08 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:*
> ***
>
> *[image: Image removed by sender. Campaign Stops - Strong Opinions on the
> 2012 Election] <http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/>*****
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]<http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=cookie&pos=Position1B>
> ****
>
> January 10, 2012, 12:13 am****
>
> *Rick Santorum’s Anti-College Rant*****
>
> *By CHARLES M. BLOW<http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/author/charles-m-blow/>
> *****
>
> Hey, I get it: Republicans have to reject and condemn virtually everything
> President Obama proposes, no matter how noble, to satisfy their base. This
> is our political predicament.****
>
> Rick Santorum, however, has followed that logic out the window. In New
> Hampshire last week Santorum accused President Obama of “elitist snobbery<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c65WNw84HRY>”
> and “hubris<http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2012/01/07/santorum-obama-s-a-snob.html>”
> for suggesting that “under my administration, every child should go to
> college.”****
>
> Who are you? Who are you to say that every child in America go … I mean
> the hubris of this president to think that he knows what’s best for you. I
> … you know there is … I have seven kids. Maybe they’ll all go to college.
> But, if one of my kids wants to go and be an auto mechanic, good for him.
> That’s a good-paying job – using your hands and using your mind. This is
> the kind of, the kind of snobbery that we see from those who think they
> know how to run our lives. Rise up America. Defend your own freedoms.****
>
> First, the facts: I can’t find a single instance where the president has
> actually said that. The president has consistently framed the discussion<http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-falls-in-global-ranking-of-young-adults-who-finish-college/2011/08/22/gIQAAsU3OK_story.html>as one of making high school graduates both college- and career-ready. And
> even when speaking about learning *after* high school, he has often
> included both higher education and vocational training.****
>
> For instance, during a joint session of Congress in February 2009, the
> president said:****
>
> It will be the goal of this administration to ensure that every child has
> access to a complete and competitive education – from the day they are born
> to the day they begin a career.****
>
> He continued:****
>
> And so tonight, I ask every American to commit to at least one year or
> more of higher education or career training. This can be community college
> or a four-year school; vocational training or an apprenticeship.****
>
> A question, Rick: How does a person become an auto mechanic without either
> vocational training or an apprenticeship? Does he just spring forth from
> the womb knowing how to drop the transmission on a Dodge Durango? I didn’t
> think so. Moving right along …****
>
> The president has called for the reauthorization of<http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/president-obama-calls-new-steps-prepare-america-s-children-success-college-and-care>the Elementary and Secondary Education Act and challenged states to
> “develop standards and assessments that will help America’s children rise
> to the challenge of graduating from high school prepared for college and
> the workplace.”****
>
> The president has also unveiled plans<http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=106636657&m=106658845>to help more students graduate from community college, a main tenet of his
> education agenda, saying,****
>
> We know that in the coming years, jobs requiring at least an associate
> degree are projected to grow twice as fast as jobs requiring no college
> experience. We will not fill those jobs or even keep those jobs here in
> America without the training offered by community colleges.****
>
> Now that we’ve established some facts, let’s turn to the larger question:
> Is it a bad thing to want more students to be prepared for college, to have
> access to college and to in fact attend college? Of course not.****
>
> As The Washington Post pointed out
> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-falls-in-global-ranking-of-young-adults-who-finish-college/2011/08/22/gIQAAsU3OK_story.html>in
> September, an Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development report
> released that month found that****
>
> America’s global rank in college completion among young adults is
> slipping, according to a report released Tuesday, signaling that the higher
> education ambitions of other nations are progressing at a swifter pace.***
> *
>
> The Post continued:****
>
> Instead of gaining ground, the United States has fallen from 12th to 16th
> in the share of adults age 25 to 34 holding degrees, according to the
> report from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. It
> trails global leaders South Korea, Canada and Japan and is mired in the
> middle of the pack among developed nations.****
>
> The stagnant U.S. performance on this key international benchmark reflects
> at least two trends: the rapid expansion of college attendance in Asia and
> Europe, and the continuing emphasis on four-year degrees in the United
> States while other nations focus far more on one- and two-year professional
> credentials.****
>
> Sounds to me like the president’s plan is designed to address this. But
> then again, I’m applying regular logic, not “I-hate-Obama,
> stick-my-fingers-in-my-ears, say ‘la-la-la-la-la’ ” logic.****
>
> An even more disturbing finding in the O.E.C.D report is how poorly
> Americans perform in the job market without a college degree. Among
> Americans aged 18 to 64 whose highest level of education is “upper
> secondary and post-secondary non-tertiary” — the equivalent of high school
> and perhaps some vocational or community college training — the percentage
> of the employed is among the lowest of all O.E.C.D. countries. We rank 30th
> out of 34 countries, just above Greece, Hungary, Poland and Turkey.****
>
> Oh, the hubris and elitist snobbery of wanting a more educated, more
> highly employed work force.****
>
>
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com****
>
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>   ****
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>   ****
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>  ****
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> ** **
>
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