[Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant

Wed Jan 11 12:32:38 PST 2012

No, it went down the OTHER way...

Wayne Fox posted an article demonstrating Santorum's ignorance.  

Tom Hansen them posted a reply that read like something from "Song of
the South"... linking it to bigotry.

I am saying that these are not the same thing.

(And now you're blurring my point and trying to trap me even further by
adding more words into the mix.... like "well-founded views").

Being BIGOTED doesn't mean you're STUPID... it means you're IGNORANT.  

Being STUPID doesn't mean you're BIGOTED.  

If it worked like that, then we could simply draw a line on a chart and
say, "everyone who has an IQ below 70 must be a racist, and all racists
have an IQ below 70".

Jay

From: Joe Campbell [mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 12:12 PM
To: Jay Borden
Cc: Donovan Arnold; Tom Hansen; Art Deco; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant

I agree, Jay. But I think Tom's point went in the other direction. Being
a bigot or racist makes one stupid or ignorant. You don't want to argue
against that do you? Or do you think that some bigots and racists have
intelligent, well-founded views? Joe

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
wrote:

This is getting into a level of semantics too inane even for me...

My only point is that being STUPID or IGNORANT does not necessarily make
you a bigot or racist... as Tom Hansen seemed to be alluding to in his
post.

Being called either into today's world both takes power away from TRULY
exposing those with these types of opinions, as well as unfairly damages
folks in the process.

Jay

From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 11:26 AM
To: Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Art Deco
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant

Jay,

If someone is stupid, you cannot change their ignorance. 

Donovan Arnold

From: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
To: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <
thansen at moscow.com>; Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant

No, I believe that 'bigotry' is a product of ignorance, not stupidity.

You can't change stupid... but you can educate yourself to a different
degree of understanding.

Jay

From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:32 AM
To: Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Art Deco
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant

So you think bigotry is branch of intelligence, Mr. Borden?

Donovan Arnold

From: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
To: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <
thansen at moscow.com>; Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant

No.

Jay

From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:14 AM
To: Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Art Deco
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant

Isn't bigotry just a particular brand of stupidity?

Donovan Arnold

From: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; Art Deco <
art.deco.studios at gmail.com> 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant

Uh... what?    Don't blur stupidity with bigotry.

Jay

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hansen
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:42 AM
To: Art Deco
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant

Yesirree, Bubba.

I mean . . . Doesn't that Prezdint Obommer know that them black folk
have a ingrown hankerin' to shine shoes at the local mall and workin'
them fields jus' like their great granpappies did yearin' ago . . . back
on them warm, cozy plantations.

They don't need no collidge no how.

Seeya later, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Spokane, Washington

"If not us, who?

If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Jan 10, 2012, at 8:08 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
wrote:

	  <http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/> 

<http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=cookie&pos=Position1
B> 

	January 10, 2012, 12:13 am

	Rick Santorum's Anti-College Rant

	By CHARLES M. BLOW
<http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/author/charles-m-blow/> 

	Hey, I get it: Republicans have to reject and condemn virtually
everything President Obama proposes, no matter how noble, to satisfy
their base. This is our political predicament.

	Rick Santorum, however, has followed that logic out the window.
In New Hampshire last week Santorum accused President Obama of "elitist
snobbery <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c65WNw84HRY> " and "hubris
<http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2012/01/07/santorum-obama-s-a-snob.
html> " for suggesting that "under my administration, every child should
go to college."

		Who are you? Who are you to say that every child in
America go ... I mean the hubris of this president to think that he
knows what's best for you. I ... you know there is ... I have seven
kids. Maybe they'll all go to college. But, if one of my kids wants to
go and be an auto mechanic, good for him. That's a good-paying job -
using your hands and using your mind. This is the kind of, the kind of
snobbery that we see from those who think they know how to run our
lives. Rise up America. Defend your own freedoms.

	First, the facts: I can't find a single instance where the
president has actually said that. The president has consistently framed
the discussion
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-falls-in-global-rankin
g-of-young-adults-who-finish-college/2011/08/22/gIQAAsU3OK_story.html>
as one of making high school graduates both college- and career-ready.
And even when speaking about learning after high school, he has often
included both higher education and vocational training.

	For instance, during a joint session of Congress in February
2009, the president said:

		It will be the goal of this administration to ensure
that every child has access to a complete and competitive education -
from the day they are born to the day they begin a career.

	He continued:

		And so tonight, I ask every American to commit to at
least one year or more of higher education or career training. This can
be community college or a four-year school; vocational training or an
apprenticeship.

	A question, Rick: How does a person become an auto mechanic
without either vocational training or an apprenticeship? Does he just
spring forth from the womb knowing how to drop the transmission on a
Dodge Durango? I didn't think so. Moving right along ...

	The president has called for the reauthorization of
<http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/president-obama-calls-new-st
eps-prepare-america-s-children-success-college-and-care>  the Elementary
and Secondary Education Act and challenged states to "develop standards
and assessments that will help America's children rise to the challenge
of graduating from high school prepared for college and the workplace."

	The president has also unveiled plans
<http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false
&id=106636657&m=106658845>  to help more students graduate from
community college, a main tenet of his education agenda, saying,

		We know that in the coming years, jobs requiring at
least an associate degree are projected to grow twice as fast as jobs
requiring no college experience. We will not fill those jobs or even
keep those jobs here in America without the training offered by
community colleges.

	Now that we've established some facts, let's turn to the larger
question: Is it a bad thing to want more students to be prepared for
college, to have access to college and to in fact attend college? Of
course not.

	As The Washington Post pointed out
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-falls-in-global-rankin
g-of-young-adults-who-finish-college/2011/08/22/gIQAAsU3OK_story.html>
in September, an Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development
report released that month found that

		America's global rank in college completion among young
adults is slipping, according to a report released Tuesday, signaling
that the higher education ambitions of other nations are progressing at
a swifter pace.

	The Post continued:

		Instead of gaining ground, the United States has fallen
from 12th to 16th in the share of adults age 25 to 34 holding degrees,
according to the report from the Organization for Economic Cooperation
and Development. It trails global leaders South Korea, Canada and Japan
and is mired in the middle of the pack among developed nations.

		The stagnant U.S. performance on this key international
benchmark reflects at least two trends: the rapid expansion of college
attendance in Asia and Europe, and the continuing emphasis on four-year
degrees in the United States while other nations focus far more on one-
and two-year professional credentials.

	Sounds to me like the president's plan is designed to address
this. But then again, I'm applying regular logic, not "I-hate-Obama,
stick-my-fingers-in-my-ears, say 'la-la-la-la-la' " logic.

	An even more disturbing finding in the O.E.C.D report is how
poorly Americans perform in the job market without a college degree.
Among Americans aged 18 to 64 whose highest level of education is "upper
secondary and post-secondary non-tertiary" - the equivalent of high
school and perhaps some vocational or community college training - the
percentage of the employed is among the lowest of all O.E.C.D.
countries. We rank 30th out of 34 countries, just above Greece, Hungary,
Poland and Turkey.

	Oh, the hubris and elitist snobbery of wanting a more educated,
more highly employed work force.

	-- 
	Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
	art.deco.studios at gmail.com

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