[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Mon Jan 2 23:21:55 PST 2012
On 01/02/2012 10:26 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:
>
> Jay: I don't think you were on V2020 back then, but the racist crap
> in Ron Paul's newsletters came up here back in late 2007/early 2008 --
> it *isn't* something that just came up/out because Paul was gaining
> traction in the polls. Thanks for the rephrasing of Paul's email --
> it helped me to better understand the perspective. LOL -- not that I
> agree with the perspective, just like I don't agree with you about
> term limits as a litmus test. I continue to argue that for those who
> are the *targets* of discrimination, unequal protection under the law,
> and invasions of privacy -- all of which I consider to be civil rights
> issues -- and those who are keenly aware of those issues, they aren't
> "theatrical" issues at all -- they are *substantive* issues that
> really strike at the core of what it means to be Americans, perhaps
> far more than something like term limits.
>
I'm still trying to figure out how people got what they did out of what
I originally said, but whatever.
There are people in power that want nothing more than to keep amassing
that power and increasing their wealth. Some very scary things have
happened in the last dozens of years, including Abu Ghraib, the
"Patriot" act, indefinite detention in Guantanamo Bay, warrantless
wiretaps, the secret room in the ATT building used for spying on all of
our communications, extraordinary rendition, targeted assassinations of
US citizens, refusal to follow the Geneva Conventions, not to mention
starting horrific wars based on false information. Even the damned TSA
is a consequence of this madness.
If things keep going this way, we will be totally screwed. That's
totally screwed as in the list of differences between what our
government does and what North Korea does to it's citizens is shrinking
at an alarming rate.
When I say that these issues we've been talking about are meant as
distractions, I don't for one minute mean that they are not important!
That's why they work so well as distractions. Believe me, these people
that can send people they think are guilty with no proof to foreign
countries to be tortured (not just waterboarded, but all-out tortured)
don't care about abortion or gay rights or whatever, because it doesn't
affect their ability to gain power.
Abortion, for example, has been targeted by Presidents and
administrations for a long time now. Some try to make Roe V. Wade go
away, others try to strengthen it. For decades now, it's been pretty
much the same. It can wait through one more Administration. The abuses
I listed above are getting worse, and they speak directly to the health
of our nation. If we lose too many rights, we might as well be in China.
So my suggestion, not that anyone cares, is to fight this erosion of our
freedoms now, because it will just get worse. No other candidate out
there is even talking about this.
Even if Ron Paul gets elected, he won't get almost anything he wants
through Congress. But he can stop these abuses from getting even more
out of control through his veto powers. And, in my opinion, that's what
we really need right now.
Paul
P.S. Just in case I haven't made myself clear, I don't hate 17-year old
incest victims. Or gays. Or black people.
> Sunil: I think you mentioned something about "silent blessings," and
> I take exception to that characterization, assuming I correctly
> understood your point. I can't speak for anyone here but myself, but
> none of our state or national elected politicians could characterize
> me as silent -- I regularly write & call all of them letting them know
> what I think they're doing right and wrong. Do they listen to me?
> Obviously not, but that doesn't mean I'm not trying or giving them my
> silent blessings.
>
> Saundra
>
> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Sunil Ramalingam
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 6:13 PM
> *Cc:* vision 2020
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying he
> is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a
> minute.
>
> Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the defense
> budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the
> Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?
>
> What say you, Keely, Wayne, Saundra, Tom?
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> To: deco at moscow.com <mailto:deco at moscow.com>
> CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
>
> He has admitted to putting out an investment newsletter that (as far
> as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that printed the racist
> comments. It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about what will
> happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of cash, most of
> which have come true - just not in the way he thought. Try taking a
> large pile of cash through airport security and see how well that goes.
>
> Another distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently
> succeeds in its goals. Or maybe this is just jumping on the
> bandwagon, since it is the Daily Mail, after all.
>
> Paul
>
> On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco wrote:
>
> See:
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html
>
> Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself acknowledging the
> letters, etc.
>
> All javascript scripts must be allowed in order to see the whole
> article including the videos.
>
> w.
>
> *From:*Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>
> *Sent:*Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM
>
> *To:*keely emerinemix <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>
> *Cc:*vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>
> *Subject:*Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
>
> Does it matter whether or not the allegations are true? Or do we just
> call them out anyway?
>
> Here is an article from CBS News about the newsletters:
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/
>
> The article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:
>
> "When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a
> newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit. Several
> writers contributed to the product," he said. "For over a decade, I
> have publicly taken moral responsibility for not paying closer
> attention to what went out under my name."
>
> I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something he might
> not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman is losing
> to Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign on a strong
> showing there.
>
> I got that last bit from this article:
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/
>
> And once again, this is only out there in order to distract us. These
> people could care less if it's even true. It's just convenient.
>
> Paul
>
> On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
>
> I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or even the
> wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the slightest apparent
> provocation. That said, I think it's imperative that legitimate
> indications that an individual's views on race/gender/class/civil
> rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned --
> and I believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an example.
>
> Keely
> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com <http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:41:13 -0800
> From: jborden at datawedge.com <mailto:jborden at datawedge.com>
> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
> <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>; vision2020 at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>
> I'm not **defending** racism, I'm commenting on the mere
> finger-pointing and accusations being so charged that it's a nuclear
> weapon in a political arsenal.
>
> It's used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics. (And,
> unless I missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart's point).
>
> Insert story of "crying wolf".
>
> Jay
>
> *From:*keely emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 2:27 PM
> *To:* Jay Borden; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
> <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>; vision2020 at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Jay, I would rue the day that racist behavior and bigoted views become
> irrelevant in how we choose our leaders. There are issues that truly
> good people can disagree on; racism, however, is never the view of a
> "truly good person," and in fact ought to, by virtue of popular
> outcry, immediately make a pariah out of the one who embraces it.
>
> Keely
> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com <http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:17:33 -0800
> From: jborden at datawedge.com <mailto:jborden at datawedge.com>
> To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>;
> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> I would agree with Paul's statement... but I would word it a bit
> differently to deflect some of the immediate hatred I'm sure will be
> heading my way.
>
> I would say that racism, like abortion and gay marriage are **USED**
> as theatrical issues.
>
> It's interesting as soon as any candidate becomes popular in the
> polls, some wild-card story gets tossed about dealing with one of
> these issues. Then it's pressed as long as necessary until the
> candidate just "goes away".
>
> Rick Perry (again, not a fan) was gaining traction... and then
> suddenly a story about "Niggerhead" surfaced. (He has since nearly
> imploded on his own, but that's a separate issue).
>
> Ron Paul gains even more traction this time around in the polls... and
> suddenly some story connecting HIM to racisim surfaces. (I don't
> recall anything coming up about this story 4 years ago when he was
> running for President).
>
> The topics themselves are extremely important... but the **USE** of
> these subjects has become nothing more than positioning and theatrical
> tools.
>
> Is your opponent getting too much positive attention? No problem...
> just toss out one of these venomous statements (who cares whether it's
> true or not... just phrase it in the form of an "objective question"
> like Fox News does to avoid slander/libel)... and then sit back and
> watch the show.
>
> Once some story making any of these accusations hits the public...
> it's like kryptonite... and it's used as such.
>
> Jay
>
> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Saundra Lund
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 12:03 PM
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> In part, Paul wrote:
>
> "Racism, like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues".
> They are issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps
> to hungry dogs for them to fight over. While they are important in
> and of themselves, they are really meant to distract us from realizing
> that we have more power than we think we do."
>
> Yes, I do suppose it's a lot easier to look at issues like racism,
> abortion, and gay marriage as "theatrical issues" when you're *not*
> the minority family unable to rent a home due to racism, and you're
> *not* the 17-year-old incest victim forced to carry your granddaddy's
> baby or risk death from a backdoor abortion, and you're *not* the
> lesbian at risk of losing custody of your children born via IVF to
> your now-deceased 15 year partner because her family never "approved"
> of the non-marriage.
>
> Yuppers -- I guess for some, it is a lot easier to take the position
> that those issues, while "important," really are just "theatrical
> issues" when one isn't the target, when one lacks of empathy . . . or
> when one lacks the sense God gave a billy goat.
>
> Not in *my* America. I agree with Sue's comment, "All rights and even
> some privileges should belong to all citizens" and shouldn't depend on
> where in the US one lives.
>
> Paul also wrote:
>
> "In my opinion we should concentrate on our civil liberties . . ."
>
> I guess I'm unclear as to how you define "civil liberties," but
> reproductive freedom & gay marriage both fit into my definition of the
> right of privacy, which is an important US civil liberty.
>
> Saundra Lund
>
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
> do nothing.
>
> ~ Edmund Burke
>
> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Rumelhart
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:37 AM
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> I sent this only to Sue, when I meant to send it to the list.
>
> Paul
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> *From:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>>
> *To:* Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com <mailto:suehovey at moscow.com>>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:32 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> It doesn't negate the evidence. For what it's worth, he claims that
> he didn't write those newsletters that were put out in his name. Like
> you've shown, a person can be compassionate and still be racist.
> Being racist is not a black and white thing, no pun intended. It's
> something that can change over a period of years. I grew up in a
> casually racist household, and had to unlearn much of that over the
> years, as did my parents. It's easy to fall into that trap when you
> grow up with it and everyone around you thinks the same thing. As
> society changed, so did those around me, and so did I.
>
> I've said this many times on the Viz: I'm not looking for Jesus
> Christ or Gandhi when I'm looking for a Presidential candidate to vote
> for. I want someone who will perform well in the job.
>
> So the question is, assuming he is some kind of die-hard racist from
> the sixties like he's being portrayed, is he going to deny blacks the
> right to vote or serve on juries?
>
> Racism, like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues".
> They are issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps
> to hungry dogs for them to fight over. While they are important in
> and of themselves, they are really meant to distract us from realizing
> that we have more power than we think we do. In my opinion we should
> concentrate on our civil liberties, and in stopping the steady power
> buildup for the Executive branch that's been going on for years.
> That's far more dangerous to us in the short term than any of these
> hot button issues are. Like Sunil said in another post, it's all
> about priorities.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com <mailto:suehovey at moscow.com>>
> *To:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 30, 2011 10:34 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> It's a lovely story, Paul. And a powerful instance of Ron Paul's
> compassion, but how does it negate the evidence of his racism in those
> published reports? My Texas grandfather was a racist through and
> through, yet he performed kind and generous acts to the people he
> belittled, and to whom he would have denied the vote, the right to
> serve on juries (along with women) and most especially the right to
> sit up front in public transportation.
>
> Sue H.
>
> *From:*Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>
> *Sent:*Friday, December 30, 2011 10:18 PM
>
> *To:*vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>
> *Subject:*[Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Here is a video in response to allegations of racism being leveled at
> Ron Paul. It was made by "Revolution PAC", a "superPAC" whose sole
> purpose is to get Ron Paul elected. It's entitled "The Compassion of
> Dr. Ron Paul":
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4
>
> If we're going to attack Ron Paul with allegations of racism on the
> list, I thought it might be nice to see what his side has to say.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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