[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

Mon Jan 2 22:49:07 PST 2012

Saundra,

I quite agree that due process has been under attack for some time. No promised change in this area from our current President.

As for my blessing comment: if you take exception, you likely did understand my meaning. Now, do you think telling Obama what you think makes any difference to him? I don't think it does, and voting for him is just that blessing. If I am wrong on this, can you tell me how?

I think he will continue to:

-grab power that does not belong to him
-use drones/special forces to kill people in countries around the world
-kill US citizens without due process
-imprison people without charges or if charged, allow them due process in defending themselves.

Do you believe any of this will change? 

Sunil

From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 22:26:56 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw:  On Ron Paul and Racism

First, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL! There have been lots of good comments & discussion since I was last on, so I’ll keep my comments brief now. What say I, Sunil?  Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to use that clock to tell time. And, I absolutely agree with the crucial importance of due process.  I suppose, though, that I’m jaded enough to have been extremely worried about the erosion of due process for a long time now . . . long before Obama was elected.  Do you disagree, Sunil?   I agree with Ron Paul on some issues – including those you mentioned -- that’s what made me spend a lot of time learning about him way back when.  For me, though, the issues with which I strongly disagree with him (I think some of his ideas are actually very, very dangerous) far outweigh the positions I find appealing; for others, that weighing process comes out differently.  I am grateful, though, that through his candidacy, important topics like ending our wars, cutting the defense budget, etc., are being discussed. Jay:  I don’t think you were on V2020 back then, but the racist crap in Ron Paul’s newsletters came up here back in late 2007/early 2008 – it isn’t something that just came up/out because Paul was gaining traction in the polls.  Thanks for the rephrasing of Paul’s email – it helped me to better understand the perspective.  LOL – not that I agree with the perspective, just like I don’t agree with you about term limits as a litmus test.  I continue to argue that for those who are the targets of discrimination, unequal protection under the law, and invasions of privacy – all of which I consider to be civil rights issues – and those who are keenly aware of those issues, they aren’t “theatrical” issues at all – they are substantive issues that really strike at the core of what it means to be Americans, perhaps far more than something like term limits. Sunil:  I think you mentioned something about “silent blessings,” and I take exception to that characterization, assuming I correctly understood your point.  I can’t speak for anyone here but myself, but none of our state or national elected politicians could characterize me as silent – I regularly write & call all of them letting them know what I think they’re doing right and wrong.  Do they listen to me?  Obviously not, but that doesn’t mean I’m not trying or giving them my silent blessings.  Saundra From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Sunil Ramalingam
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 6:13 PM
Cc: vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a minute.

Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the defense budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?

What say you, Keely, Wayne, Saundra, Tom?

SunilDate: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: deco at moscow.com
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

He has admitted to putting out an investment newsletter that (as far as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that printed the racist comments.  It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about what will happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of cash, most of which have come true - just not in the way he thought.  Try taking a large pile of cash through airport security and see how well that goes.

Another distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently succeeds in its goals.  Or maybe this is just jumping on the bandwagon, since it is the Daily Mail, after all.

Paul

On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco wrote: See: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself acknowledging the letters, etc. All javascript scripts must be allowed in order to see the whole article including the videos. w. From: Paul Rumelhart Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PMTo: keely emerinemix Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism 
Does it matter whether or not the allegations are true?  Or do we just call them out anyway?

Here is an article from CBS News about the newsletters: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/

The article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:  

"When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to the product," he said. "For over a decade, I have publicly taken moral responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my name."

I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something he might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman is losing to Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign on a strong showing there.

I got that last bit from this article: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/

And once again, this is only out there in order to distract us.  These people could care less if it's even true.  It's just convenient.

Paul

On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote: I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or even the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the slightest apparent provocation.  That said, I think it's imperative that legitimate indications that an individual's views on race/gender/class/civil rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned -- and I believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an example.  

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:41:13 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.comI’m not *defending* racism, I’m commenting on the mere finger-pointing and accusations being so charged that it’s a nuclear weapon in a political arsenal.   It’s used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics.  (And, unless I missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point). Insert story of “crying wolf”. Jay From: keely emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com] 
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 2:27 PM
To: Jay Borden; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism Jay, I would rue the day that racist behavior and bigoted views become irrelevant in how we choose our leaders.  There are issues that truly good people can disagree on; racism, however, is never the view of a "truly good person," and in fact ought to, by virtue of popular outcry, immediately make a pariah out of the one who embraces it.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.comDate: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:17:33 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and RacismI would agree with Paul’s statement… but I would word it a bit differently to deflect some of the immediate hatred I’m sure will be heading my way. I would say that racism, like abortion and gay marriage are *USED* as theatrical issues.   It’s interesting as soon as any candidate becomes popular in the polls, some wild-card story gets tossed about dealing with one of these issues.  Then it’s pressed as long as necessary until the candidate just “goes away”. Rick Perry (again, not a fan) was gaining traction… and then suddenly a story about “Niggerhead” surfaced.  (He has since nearly imploded on his own, but that’s a separate issue). Ron Paul gains even more traction this time around in the polls… and suddenly some story connecting HIM to racisim surfaces.  (I don’t recall anything coming up about this story 4 years ago when he was running for President). The topics themselves are extremely important… but the *USE* of these subjects has become nothing more than positioning and theatrical tools.    Is your opponent getting too much positive attention?  No problem… just toss out one of these venomous statements (who cares whether it’s true or not… just phrase it in the form of an “objective question” like Fox News does to avoid slander/libel)… and then sit back and watch the show. Once some story making any of these accusations hits the public… it’s like kryptonite… and it’s used as such.  Jay From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Saundra Lund
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 12:03 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism In part, Paul wrote:“Racism, like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues".  They are issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps to hungry dogs for them to fight over.  While they are important in and of themselves, they are really meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power than we think we do.” Yes, I do suppose it’s a lot easier to look at issues like racism, abortion, and gay marriage as “theatrical issues” when you’re not the minority family unable to rent a home due to racism, and you’re not the 17-year-old incest victim forced to carry your granddaddy’s baby or risk death from a backdoor abortion, and you’re not the lesbian at risk of losing custody of your children born via IVF to your now-deceased 15 year partner because her family never “approved” of the non-marriage. Yuppers – I guess for some, it is a lot easier to take the position that those issues, while “important,” really are just “theatrical issues” when one isn’t the target, when one lacks of empathy . . . or when one lacks the sense God gave a billy goat. Not in my America.  I agree with Sue’s comment, “All rights and even some privileges should belong to all citizens” and shouldn’t depend on where in the US one lives. Paul also wrote:“In my opinion we should concentrate on our civil liberties . . .” I guess I’m unclear as to how you define “civil liberties,” but reproductive freedom & gay marriage both fit into my definition of the right of privacy, which is an important US civil liberty.  Saundra LundMoscow, ID The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.~ Edmund Burke From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:37 AM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism I sent this only to Sue, when I meant to send it to the list. Paul ----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
To: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> 
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and RacismIt doesn't negate the evidence.  For what it's worth, he claims that he didn't write those newsletters that were put out in his name.  Like you've shown, a person can be compassionate and still be racist.  Being racist is not a black and white thing, no pun intended.  It's something that can change over a period of years.  I grew up in a casually racist household, and had to unlearn much of that over the years, as did my parents.  It's easy to fall into that trap when you grow up with it and everyone around you thinks the same thing.  As society changed, so did those around me, and so did I. I've said this many times on the Viz:  I'm not looking for Jesus Christ or Gandhi when I'm looking for a Presidential candidate to vote for.  I want someone who will perform well in the job. So the question is, assuming he is some kind of die-hard racist from the sixties like he's being portrayed, is he going to deny blacks the right to vote or serve on juries? Racism, like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues".  They are issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps to hungry dogs for them to fight over.  While they are important in and of themselves, they are really meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power than we think we do.  In my opinion we should concentrate on our civil liberties, and in stopping the steady power buildup for the Executive branch that's been going on for years.  That's far more dangerous to us in the short term than any of these hot button issues are.  Like Sunil said in another post, it's all about priorities. Paul From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and RacismIt’s a lovely story, Paul. And a powerful instance of Ron Paul’s compassion, but how does it negate the evidence of his racism in those published reports?  My Texas grandfather was a racist through and through, yet he performed kind and generous acts to the people he belittled, and to whom he would have denied the vote, the right to serve on juries (along with women) and most especially the right to sit up front in public transportation.   Sue H.        From: Paul Rumelhart Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 10:18 PMTo: vision2020 at moscow.com Subject: [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism Here is a video in response to allegations of racism being leveled at Ron Paul.  It was made by "Revolution PAC", a "superPAC" whose sole purpose is to get Ron Paul elected. It's entitled "The Compassion of Dr. Ron Paul": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4 If we're going to attack Ron Paul with allegations of racism on the list, I thought it might be nice to see what his side has to say. Paul=======================================================
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