[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

Sun Jan 1 21:15:11 PST 2012

If Ron Paul is for the government to limit individual rights for no reason other than individual bias, he cannot claim to be a Libertarian. Preventing people from freely associating with each other in a manner that does no harm to anyone else is an act of aggression.

How can anyone claim having a Christian position on same gender marriage when Christ didn't express one? I can equally make the claim that I believe in same sex marriage because I am Christian. 

Donovan Arnold

________________________________
 From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: deco at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2012 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw:  On Ron Paul and Racism

I thought Paul had answered "Why not?" to the question of his views on allowing gay men and lesbians to marry.  Maybe I'm wrong, though.

Once again, it occurs to me, as I imagine it does to most people, that civil rights and foundational norms of justice are too important, like educational standards, to be different from state to state.

I guess this would make me a really bad paleo- or neo-Confederate, for which I'm terribly, endlessly, grateful.  

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

________________________________
From: deco at moscow.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:25:02 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw:  On Ron Paul and Racism

Kelly, 

Here in a nutshell is Ron Paul's position on gay 
marriage: 

As a lifelong Christian, he is personally against 
it.  He is against any federal legislation on this issue, but for allowing 
each state to decide the issue themselves. 

Needless to say, besides most likely leading to the 
denial of gays to marry in many states, the legal morasses created by allowing 
gay marriage in some states and not allowing it or not recognizing it in other 
states are horrifying to contemplate. 

 w. 

From: keely emerinemix  
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:14 PM 
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com  
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com  
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
Racism 

Being a racist doesn't mean he's wrong on these issues, Sunil -- 
but it means that, as Ron Paul (if he is, in fact, a racist), he should be 
applauded for those views he holds that are correct and challenged on any that 
you, I, or anyone else disagrees with.  It doesn't mean he ought to run for 
office, or that we ought to vote for him.

There are plenty of people, I 
imagine, who are right about the issues you mention below who aren't bigots, and 
who -- perhaps more germane to the conversation -- wouldn't gut the social 
services that make this country not only habitable (imperfect and imperfectly 
delivered as they are), but moral.  I think you and I see the 
defense/national security issues fairly similarly, and we likely also applaud 
Paul's views on legalizing marijuana, gay marriage, and maybe a couple of other 
issues.  Nonetheless, even those areas on which I agree with Paul -- the 
ones I just mentioned and the ones you did -- aren't enough for me either to 
vote for him, or overlook what at least the most fervent Paul supporter would 
acknowledge was carelessness in letting bigots crank out his newsletter.  

The cumulative effect of Paul's economic and some of his social policies 
will harm more people -- people already marginalized and suffering -- than the 
hundreds of thousands this and the previous war-courting administrations 
have.  Do I take any comfort in that?  

No.  Not at 
all.  But I have to vote for the man who seems to have more, better answers 
than the one who has one or two good ones.  And I can't afford to combine 
the worst of both Obama and Paul by risking the horror of, say, a Perry or 
Bachmann presidency.

Thanks, Sunil.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

________________________________

From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 31 
Dec 2011 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
Racism

Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying 
he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a 
minute.

Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the 
defense budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the 
Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?

What say you, Keely, 
Wayne, Saundra, Tom?

Sunil

________________________________

Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: 
deco at moscow.com
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On 
Ron Paul and Racism

He has admitted to putting out an investment 
newsletter that (as far as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that 
printed the racist comments.  It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about 
what will happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of cash, most of 
which have come true - just not in the way he thought.  Try taking a large 
pile of cash through airport security and see how well that goes.

Another 
distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently succeeds in its 
goals.  Or maybe this is just jumping on the bandwagon, since it is the 
Daily Mail, after all.

Paul

On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco 
wrote: 
See: 
>
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html 
>
>Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself  acknowledging the letters, etc. 
>
>All javascript scripts must be allowed in  order to see the whole article including the videos. 
>
>w. 
>
> 
>From: Paul Rumelhart  
>Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM 
>To: keely  emerinemix  
>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com  
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and  Racism 
>
>
>Does it matter whether or not the allegations are 
  true?  Or do we just call them out anyway?
>
>Here is an article from 
  CBS News about the newsletters: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/
>
>The 
  article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:  
>
>"When I was 
  out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was published 
  under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to the 
  product," he said. "For over a decade, I have publicly taken moral 
  responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my 
  name."
>
>I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something he 
  might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman is losing to 
  Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign on a strong showing 
  there.
>
>I got that last bit from this article: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/
>
>And 
  once again, this is only out there in order to distract us.  These people 
  could care less if it's even true.  It's just 
  convenient.
>
>Paul
>
>On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote: 
> 
>>I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or even  the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the slightest apparent  provocation.  That said, I think it's imperative that legitimate  indications that an individual's views on race/gender/class/civil  rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned -- and I  believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an example.  
>>
>>Keely
>>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>>Date: Sat, 31 Dec 
    2011 14:41:13 -0800
>>From: jborden at datawedge.com
>>To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>
>>  
>>I’m  not *defending* racism, I’m commenting on the mere finger-pointing  and accusations being so charged that it’s a nuclear weapon in a political  arsenal.   
>>  
>>It’s  used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics.  (And, unless I  missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point). 
>>  
>>Insert  story of “crying wolf”. 
>>  
>>Jay 
>>  
>>From:keely  emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com] 
>>Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 2:27 PM
>>To: Jay Borden; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism 
>>  
>>Jay, I would rue  the day that racist behavior and bigoted views become irrelevant in how we  choose our leaders.  There are issues that truly good people can  disagree on; racism, however, is never the view of a "truly good person,"  and in fact ought to, by virtue of popular outcry, immediately make a pariah  out of the one who embraces it.
>>
>>Keely
>>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>
>> 
>>
>>________________________________
>>  
>>Date: Sat, 31  Dec 2011 14:17:33 -0800
>>From: jborden at datawedge.com
>>To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: 
    Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism 
>>I  would agree with Paul’s statement… but I would word it a bit differently to  deflect some of the immediate hatred I’m sure will be heading my  way. 
>>  
>>I  would say that racism, like abortion and gay marriage are *USED* as  theatrical issues.   
>>  
>>It’s  interesting as soon as any candidate becomes popular in the polls, some  wild-card story gets tossed about dealing with one of these issues.   Then it’s pressed as long as necessary until the candidate just “goes  away”. 
>>  
>>Rick  Perry (again, not a fan) was gaining traction… and then suddenly a story  about “Niggerhead” surfaced.  (He has since nearly imploded on his own,  but that’s a separate issue). 
>>  
>>Ron  Paul gains even more traction this time around in the polls… and suddenly  some story connecting HIM to racisim surfaces.  (I don’t recall  anything coming up about this story 4 years ago when he was running for  President). 
>>  
>>The  topics themselves are extremely important… but the *USE* of these  subjects has become nothing more than positioning and theatrical  tools.    
>>  
>>Is  your opponent getting too much positive attention?  No problem… just  toss out one of these venomous statements (who cares whether it’s true or  not… just phrase it in the form of an “objective question” like Fox News  does to avoid slander/libel)… and then sit back and watch the  show. 
>>  
>>Once  some story making any of these accusations hits the public… it’s like  kryptonite… and it’s used as such.  
>>  
>>Jay 
>>  
>>From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Saundra Lund
>>Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011  12:03 PM
>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism 
>>  
>>In  part, Paul wrote: 
>>“Racism,  like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues".  They are  issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps to hungry dogs  for them to fight over.  While they are important in and of themselves,  they are really meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power  than we think we do.” 
>>  
>>Yes,  I do suppose it’s a lot easier to look at issues like racism, abortion, and  gay marriage as “theatrical issues” when you’re not the minority  family unable to rent a home due to racism, and you’re not the  17-year-old incest victim forced to carry your granddaddy’s baby or risk  death from a backdoor abortion, and you’re not the lesbian at risk of  losing custody of your children born via IVF to your now-deceased 15 year  partner because her family never “approved” of the non-marriage. 
>>  
>>Yuppers  – I guess for some, it is a lot easier to take the position that those  issues, while “important,” really are just “theatrical issues” when one  isn’t the target, when one lacks of empathy . . . or when one lacks the  sense God gave a billy goat. 
>>  
>>Not  in my America.  I agree with Sue’s comment, “All rights and  even some privileges should belong to all citizens” and  shouldn’t depend on where in the US one lives. 
>>  
>>Paul  also wrote: 
>>“In  my opinion we should concentrate on our civil liberties . . .” 
>>  
>>I  guess I’m unclear as to how you define “civil liberties,” but reproductive  freedom & gay marriage both fit into my definition of the right of  privacy, which is an important US civil liberty. 
>>  
>>  
>>Saundra  Lund 
>>Moscow,  ID 
>>  
>>The  only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do  nothing. 
>>~  Edmund Burke 
>>  
>>From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
>>Sent: Saturday, December 31,  2011 9:37 AM
>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism 
>>  
>>I  sent this only to Sue, when I meant to send it to the list. 
>>  
>>Paul 
>>  
>>-----  Forwarded Message -----
>>From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>To: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> 
>>Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:32 AM
>>Subject: Re:  [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism 
>>It  doesn't negate the evidence.  For what it's worth, he claims that he  didn't write those newsletters that were put out in his name.  Like  you've shown, a person can be compassionate and still be racist.  Being  racist is not a black and white thing, no pun intended.  It's something  that can change over a period of years.  I grew up in a casually racist  household, and had to unlearn much of that over the years, as did my  parents.  It's easy to fall into that trap when you grow up with it and  everyone around you thinks the same thing.  As society changed, so did  those around me, and so did I. 
>>  
>>I've  said this many times on the Viz:  I'm not looking for Jesus Christ or  Gandhi when I'm looking for a Presidential candidate to vote for.  I  want someone who will perform well in the job. 
>>  
>>So  the question is, assuming he is some kind of die-hard racist from the  sixties like he's being portrayed, is he going to deny blacks the right to  vote or serve on juries? 
>>  
>>Racism,  like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues".  They are  issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps to hungry dogs  for them to fight over.  While they are important in and of themselves,  they are really meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power  than we think we do.  In my opinion we should concentrate on our civil  liberties, and in stopping the steady power buildup for the Executive branch  that's been going on for years.  That's far more dangerous to us in the  short term than any of these hot button issues are.  Like Sunil said in  another post, it's all about priorities. 
>>  
>>Paul 
>>  
>>
>>________________________________
>>  
>>From:Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
>>To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
>>Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 10:34 PM
>>Subject: Re:  [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism 
>>It’s  a lovely story, Paul. And a powerful instance of Ron Paul’s compassion, but  how does it negate the evidence of his racism in those published  reports?  My Texas grandfather was a racist through and through, yet he  performed kind and generous acts to the people he belittled, and to whom he  would have denied the vote, the right to serve on juries (along with women)  and most especially the right to sit up front in public  transportation.   
>>  
>>Sue  H.        
>>  
>>From:Paul  Rumelhart  
>>Sent:Friday, December 30, 2011 10:18 PM 
>>To:vision2020 at moscow.com  
>>Subject:[Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism 
>>  
>>Here  is a video in response to allegations of racism being leveled at Ron  Paul.  It was made by "Revolution PAC", a "superPAC" whose sole purpose  is to get Ron Paul elected. It's entitled "The Compassion of Dr. Ron  Paul": 
>>  
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4 
>>  
>>If  we're going to attack Ron Paul with allegations of racism on the list, I  thought it might be nice to see what his side has to say. 
>>  
>>Paul 
>>
>>________________________________
>>  
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