[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sun Jan 1 21:11:22 PST 2012
As with almost any issue with respect to Ron Paul, he supports states
rights as opposed to federal rights. He opposes any effort to define
marriage at the federal level, including marriage between one man and
one woman.
Here's some info from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul#Sexual_orientation_legislation
Paul
On 01/01/2012 08:21 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
> I thought Paul had answered "Why not?" to the question of his views on
> allowing gay men and lesbians to marry. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
>
> Once again, it occurs to me, as I imagine it does to most people, that
> civil rights and foundational norms of justice are too important, like
> educational standards, to be different from state to state.
>
> I guess this would make me a really bad paleo- or neo-Confederate, for
> which I'm terribly, endlessly, grateful.
>
> Keely
> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: deco at moscow.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:25:02 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Kelly,
> Here in a nutshell is Ron Paul's position on gay marriage:
> As a lifelong Christian, he is personally against it. He is against
> any federal legislation on this issue, but for allowing each state to
> decide the issue themselves.
> Needless to say, besides most likely leading to the denial of gays to
> marry in many states, the legal morasses created by allowing gay
> marriage in some states and not allowing it or not recognizing it in
> other states are horrifying to contemplate.
> w.
>
> *From:* keely emerinemix <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:14 PM
> *To:* sunilramalingam at hotmail.com <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Being a racist doesn't mean he's wrong on these issues, Sunil -- but
> it means that, as Ron Paul (if he is, in fact, a racist), he should be
> applauded for those views he holds that are correct and challenged on
> any that you, I, or anyone else disagrees with. It doesn't mean he
> ought to run for office, or that we ought to vote for him.
>
> There are plenty of people, I imagine, who are right about the issues
> you mention below who aren't bigots, and who -- perhaps more germane
> to the conversation -- wouldn't gut the social services that make this
> country not only habitable (imperfect and imperfectly delivered as
> they are), but moral. I think you and I see the defense/national
> security issues fairly similarly, and we likely also applaud Paul's
> views on legalizing marijuana, gay marriage, and maybe a couple of
> other issues. Nonetheless, even those areas on which I agree with
> Paul -- the ones I just mentioned and the ones you did -- aren't
> enough for me either to vote for him, or overlook what at least the
> most fervent Paul supporter would acknowledge was carelessness in
> letting bigots crank out his newsletter.
>
> The cumulative effect of Paul's economic and some of his social
> policies will harm more people -- people already marginalized and
> suffering -- than the hundreds of thousands this and the previous
> war-courting administrations have. Do I take any comfort in that?
>
> No. Not at all. But I have to vote for the man who seems to have
> more, better answers than the one who has one or two good ones. And I
> can't afford to combine the worst of both Obama and Paul by risking
> the horror of, say, a Perry or Bachmann presidency.
>
> Thanks, Sunil.
>
> Keely
> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 18:12:36 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying he
> is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a
> minute.
>
> Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the defense
> budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the
> Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?
>
> What say you, Keely, Wayne, Saundra, Tom?
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> To: deco at moscow.com
> CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
>
> He has admitted to putting out an investment newsletter that (as far
> as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that printed the racist
> comments. It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about what will
> happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of cash, most of
> which have come true - just not in the way he thought. Try taking a
> large pile of cash through airport security and see how well that goes.
>
> Another distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently
> succeeds in its goals. Or maybe this is just jumping on the
> bandwagon, since it is the Daily Mail, after all.
>
> Paul
>
> On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco wrote:
>
> See:
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html
> Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself acknowledging the
> letters, etc.
> All javascript scripts must be allowed in order to see the whole
> article including the videos.
> w.
>
> *From:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM
> *To:* keely emerinemix <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
>
> Does it matter whether or not the allegations are true? Or do we
> just call them out anyway?
>
> Here is an article from CBS News about the newsletters:
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/
>
> The article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:
>
> "When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a
> newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit.
> Several writers contributed to the product," he said. "For over a
> decade, I have publicly taken moral responsibility for not paying
> closer attention to what went out under my name."
>
> I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something he
> might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman
> is losing to Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign
> on a strong showing there.
>
> I got that last bit from this article:
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/
>
> And once again, this is only out there in order to distract us.
> These people could care less if it's even true. It's just convenient.
>
> Paul
>
> On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
>
> I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or
> even the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the
> slightest apparent provocation. That said, I think it's
> imperative that legitimate indications that an individual's
> views on race/gender/class/civil rights/culture are bigoted be
> called out, examined, and condemned -- and I believe that the
> text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an example.
>
> Keely
> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
> <http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:41:13 -0800
> From: jborden at datawedge.com <mailto:jborden at datawedge.com>
> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>;
> v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>;
> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>
> I’m not **defending** racism, I’m commenting on the mere
> finger-pointing and accusations being so charged that it’s a
> nuclear weapon in a political arsenal.
>
> It’s used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics.
> (And, unless I missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point).
>
> Insert story of “crying wolf”.
>
> Jay
>
> *From:*keely emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 2:27 PM
> *To:* Jay Borden; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
> <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>; vision2020 at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Jay, I would rue the day that racist behavior and bigoted
> views become irrelevant in how we choose our leaders. There
> are issues that truly good people can disagree on; racism,
> however, is never the view of a "truly good person," and in
> fact ought to, by virtue of popular outcry, immediately make a
> pariah out of the one who embraces it.
>
> Keely
> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
> <http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:17:33 -0800
> From: jborden at datawedge.com <mailto:jborden at datawedge.com>
> To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>;
> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> I would agree with Paul’s statement… but I would word it a bit
> differently to deflect some of the immediate hatred I’m sure
> will be heading my way.
>
> I would say that racism, like abortion and gay marriage are
> **USED** as theatrical issues.
>
> It’s interesting as soon as any candidate becomes popular in
> the polls, some wild-card story gets tossed about dealing with
> one of these issues. Then it’s pressed as long as necessary
> until the candidate just “goes away”.
>
> Rick Perry (again, not a fan) was gaining traction… and then
> suddenly a story about “Niggerhead” surfaced. (He has since
> nearly imploded on his own, but that’s a separate issue).
>
> Ron Paul gains even more traction this time around in the
> polls… and suddenly some story connecting HIM to racisim
> surfaces. (I don’t recall anything coming up about this story
> 4 years ago when he was running for President).
>
> The topics themselves are extremely important… but the **USE**
> of these subjects has become nothing more than positioning and
> theatrical tools.
>
> Is your opponent getting too much positive attention? No
> problem… just toss out one of these venomous statements (who
> cares whether it’s true or not… just phrase it in the form of
> an “objective question” like Fox News does to avoid
> slander/libel)… and then sit back and watch the show.
>
> Once some story making any of these accusations hits the
> public… it’s like kryptonite… and it’s used as such.
>
> Jay
>
> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Saundra Lund
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 12:03 PM
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> In part, Paul wrote:
>
> “Racism, like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical
> issues". They are issues that are tossed out to the American
> public like scraps to hungry dogs for them to fight over.
> While they are important in and of themselves, they are really
> meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power
> than we think we do.”
>
> Yes, I do suppose it’s a lot easier to look at issues like
> racism, abortion, and gay marriage as “theatrical issues” when
> you’re *not* the minority family unable to rent a home due to
> racism, and you’re *not* the 17-year-old incest victim forced
> to carry your granddaddy’s baby or risk death from a backdoor
> abortion, and you’re *not* the lesbian at risk of losing
> custody of your children born via IVF to your now-deceased 15
> year partner because her family never “approved” of the
> non-marriage.
>
> Yuppers – I guess for some, it is a lot easier to take the
> position that those issues, while “important,” really are just
> “theatrical issues” when one isn’t the target, when one lacks
> of empathy . . . or when one lacks the sense God gave a billy
> goat.
>
> Not in *my* America. I agree with Sue’s comment, “All rights
> and even some privileges should belong to all citizens” and
> shouldn’t depend on where in the US one lives.
>
> Paul also wrote:
>
> “In my opinion we should concentrate on our civil liberties . . .”
>
> I guess I’m unclear as to how you define “civil liberties,”
> but reproductive freedom & gay marriage both fit into my
> definition of the right of privacy, which is an important US
> civil liberty.
>
> Saundra Lund
>
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
> people to do nothing.
>
> ~ Edmund Burke
>
> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> Rumelhart
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:37 AM
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> I sent this only to Sue, when I meant to send it to the list.
>
> Paul
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> *From:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>>
> *To:* Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com
> <mailto:suehovey at moscow.com>>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:32 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> It doesn't negate the evidence. For what it's worth, he
> claims that he didn't write those newsletters that were put
> out in his name. Like you've shown, a person can be
> compassionate and still be racist. Being racist is not a
> black and white thing, no pun intended. It's something that
> can change over a period of years. I grew up in a casually
> racist household, and had to unlearn much of that over the
> years, as did my parents. It's easy to fall into that trap
> when you grow up with it and everyone around you thinks the
> same thing. As society changed, so did those around me, and
> so did I.
>
> I've said this many times on the Viz: I'm not looking for
> Jesus Christ or Gandhi when I'm looking for a Presidential
> candidate to vote for. I want someone who will perform well
> in the job.
>
> So the question is, assuming he is some kind of die-hard
> racist from the sixties like he's being portrayed, is he going
> to deny blacks the right to vote or serve on juries?
>
> Racism, like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical
> issues". They are issues that are tossed out to the American
> public like scraps to hungry dogs for them to fight over.
> While they are important in and of themselves, they are really
> meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power
> than we think we do. In my opinion we should concentrate on
> our civil liberties, and in stopping the steady power buildup
> for the Executive branch that's been going on for years.
> That's far more dangerous to us in the short term than any of
> these hot button issues are. Like Sunil said in another post,
> it's all about priorities.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com
> <mailto:suehovey at moscow.com>>
> *To:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 30, 2011 10:34 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> It’s a lovely story, Paul. And a powerful instance of Ron
> Paul’s compassion, but how does it negate the evidence of his
> racism in those published reports? My Texas grandfather was a
> racist through and through, yet he performed kind and generous
> acts to the people he belittled, and to whom he would have
> denied the vote, the right to serve on juries (along with
> women) and most especially the right to sit up front in public
> transportation.
>
> Sue H.
>
> *From:*Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>
> *Sent:*Friday, December 30, 2011 10:18 PM
>
> *To:*vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>
> *Subject:*[Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> Here is a video in response to allegations of racism being
> leveled at Ron Paul. It was made by "Revolution PAC", a
> "superPAC" whose sole purpose is to get Ron Paul elected. It's
> entitled "The Compassion of Dr. Ron Paul":
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4
>
> If we're going to attack Ron Paul with allegations of racism
> on the list, I thought it might be nice to see what his side
> has to say.
>
> Paul
>
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