[Vision2020] [link added] We, Intoleristas . . .

[Joe Campbell]

Scott,

Can you give some specific examples? Or is it just enough to say "This is
happening"?

Wilson says "But they would rather not talk at all, and so they resort
quite quickly to the instruments of harassment and coercion" to which Scott
responds "This is happening."

Please support your claim. If "they" -- meaning progressives, liberals, or
Intoleristas -- "resort quickly to the instruments of harassment and
coercion" you must have plenty of cases to back up your claim, enough to
support the claim that "they" are doing, as opposed to a select few. Please
give those examples and make sure you have enough of them to support this
very general, over-the-top claim.

Or maybe Paul could provide evidence backing up this claim: "I would like
to point out that it's the liberals on this list (or 'Intoleristas', if you
prefer) that come across as the most dogmatic of the two main groups on
this list (Intoleristas/liberals vs. conservatives/Christ Church members)."
Come across as dogmatic to whom? And how many liberals come across as
dogmatic? Why not name 10 since there are enough, on your view to make such
a general claim.

Paul also writes: "It was the Intoleristas that spent a lot of time and
effort trying to convince me that boycotting businesses run by Christ
Church members wasn't somehow intolerant of another religion." Please be
sure to name the Intoleristas that "spent a lot of time and effort trying
to convince" you to boycott Christ Church businesses? Be specific. Name
enough of them to justify this slander of a whole group of people who
happen to disagree with your views.

And of course "No conservative has ever told [you, Paul] that [you]
shouldn't make posts of a certain type." Why should they? You are there
mouthpiece.

The two posts are ironic because I've posted a slew of questions about gun
control over the last few weeks, asking some straightforward questions and
trying to engage in thoughtful discussion. None of the questions received
any serious answers. There were some sarcastic posts by Paul but no serious
attempt to engage in discussion.

I've refuted several arguments given by conservatives on this these issues
but guess what? Conservatives keep using those bad arguments anyway,
without attempting to respond to them. I can't count the times that Paul or
Gary or others, for instance, have jumped from "let's talk about gun
control" to "let's ban all firearms."

I'm ready to talk and I can talk without insulting anyone. Can either of
you? Is it even possible for Scott, Paul, or Gary to have a conversation
without insulting someone, or making the kinds of unsupported general
claims in these two posts? This is not an insult, it is a challenge.

Joe

On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  It's got some substance Dr. Gier, you just need to cut through a lot of
> Doug's crap to see some of it:
>
> <Everything goes great in this world of monochrome diversity until someone
> actually disagrees with them in their town>
> This happened.
>
> <They cannot handle disagreement and debate, and so to the extent that
> they have to talk at all they resort immediately to shrill invective.>
> This is still happening and you can see it in the threads about 'gun
> control & the NRA' and 'global warming'.
>
> <But they would rather not talk at all, and so they resort quite quickly
> to the instruments of harassment and coercion.>
> This is happening.
>
> <This is what has happened in every place in the world where they have had
> their way.>
> This is true.  Might makes right.  We're lucky to live in a country where
> individual rights are protected against mob rule.
>
> <These people we are up against are as intolerant as it gets. While I
> grant they are not as dangerous as they used to be, they are certainly as
> noisy as they used to be.>
> Intolerance cuts both ways.  Atheists can be just as intolerant and Fundy
> religious types.  Again, we're lucky to live in a country where individual
> rights are protected against mob rule.
>
> As for your comment that <[Doug's] is a very narrow world indeed>, I
> agree with this as it's quite obvious.  Even so, Doug and his gullible
> flock deserve the exact same Constitutional rights and protections as
> everyone else even though they doesn't believe in the Constitution and do
> not believe in an egalitarian society.
>
> <Happy New Year to all beings> I couldn't agree more. :)
>
> -Scott
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 10:45:59 -0800
> From: ngier at uidaho.edu
> To: moscowcares at moscow.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [link added] We, Intoleristas . . .
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Thanks for posting this.  I had not read it either before now.  It is
> vintage Wilson--all rhetoric and sarcasm with little substance.  Much like
> his papers for my philosophy classes.
>
> Some time ago a Kirker accused me of being a "Hindu-Lover," or something
> like that.  I had to inform him that I have supported four Indians for
> their studies:  one Christian who is now practicing psychotherapy in
> Australia, one Hindu for his art career, and a man and wife team (both
> devout Christians). My Hindu friends may have good reason to charge that
> I'm a "Christian-lover."
>
> The husband just finished his Ph.D. at the University of Denver on the
> psychology of being a Christian untouchable. (I thought that they did not
> exist.) It was a brilliant analysis that gained him a dissertation prize of
> $2,000.  The wife just graduated summa cum laude from the School of Nursing
> and the University of Houston.
>
> I had a great weekend celebrating with them (Indian food at every meal)
> and a wonderful church service for Telegu-speaking Christians.  What a
> change when they switched from the stodgy English hymns to the ones in
> Telegu.  The tamborines and tabla came out, and I was able sing along
> because an IT guy projected the phonetic equivalents on a screen.  A
> weekend of total immersion in Indian culture that will never be forgotten.
>
> Wilson praises that fact that many, but not as many as he implies, Latin
> Americans have converted to Pentecostal Christianity. (The highest
> percentage of them in coffee producing countries is 20 percent in
> Gautemala.) As he does with his right hand, he calls American Pentecostals
> less than Christian on the left.  (I can play the right and left hand game
> as well as he can.)  There is absolutely no healing, speaking in tongues,
> prophesying, and holy rolling at Christ Church.
>
> The only foreign travel Doug Wilson did was on U.S. subs.  He doesn't have
> a clue what multiculturalism is or what seasoned travelers experience and
> learn in foreign lands.  His is a very narrow world indeed.
>
> Happy New Year to all beings,
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> A society grows great when old men plant the seeds of trees whose shade
> they know they shall never sit in.
>
> -Greek proverb
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com on behalf of Moscow Cares
> Sent: Sun 12/30/2012 5:40 PM
> To: Joe Campbell
> Cc: viz
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [link added] We, Intoleristas . . .
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
>
>
>
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