[Vision2020] The N.R.A. at the Bench

[Joe Campbell]

I'm on the fence about banning guns, even semiautomatics. I just think the
arguments against banning guns are bad ones and we should talk about the
possibility of banning semiautomatics.

On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Andy Boyd <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>wrote:

> I hate to say this, but ultimately guns are only part of the problem, it’s
> our society in general. Quite frankly that’s the only difference between
> the US and other industrialized nations.  Gun control or ammo control is
> only part of the solution to the problem, the other is our culture that
> creates this problem.  It needs to be dealt with from both sides and it’s
> not easy.****
>
> ** **
>
> Arming teachers is ludicrous.  How can more guns be the answer in a
> civilized society.****
>
> ** **
>
> Guns don’t kill people, people kill people and people without guns don’t
> kill people with guns.****
>
> ** **
>
> Case and point is the incident in China****
>
> ** **
>
> Andy Boyd****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Joe Campbell [mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2012 3:23 PM
> *To:* Gary Crabtree
> *Cc:* Andy Boyd; vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] The N.R.A. at the Bench****
>
> ** **
>
> These points are mystifying, Gary! In as much as there is an argument
> here, it is an argument for gay marriage, abortion, drug legalization --
> you name it. If the real reason is "who decides what we need?" and "The
> government" is NOT the answer, then why have laws at all? Let's be honest:
> you are in favor of more restrictions to human behavior than I am! That's
> why I find this response mystifying.
>
> Answer: for protection. We form governments and have laws in order to
> protect the life and interests of citizens. Andy noted that, in terms of
> civilized governments, we lead the rest (a) gun violence and (b) easy
> access to firearms. Might there be a connection? If so, then I think that
> there is reason to consider better control of certain firearms. Unless you
> are an anarchist and don't believe in laws at all, you have to concede that
> there is some merit to this argument. Joe
>
> On Dec 28, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com>
> wrote:****
>
> I really don't know why I persist in this discussion. It's not as though
> these types of rifle are going to be wished out of existence by the earnest
> ideologue who believes in his heart of hearts that it would make any real
> difference but, here goes.****
>
> Need. Do people need ANY firearm? Probably not. After all it's not
> mandatory that we hunt or protect ourselves or our loved ones much less
> shoot for recreation. Of course we don't need automobiles either. Taking
> public transportation would be  adequate to get to and fro. We don't need
> steak and wine and lobster etc. a nice gruel enhanced with all the vitamins
> and minerals we require would be sufficient to meet our nutritional needs.
> We most assuredly don't need all the variety in clothing available, a one
> piece coverall in what ever color was cheapest to produce would really be
> enough protect from the elements (this assumes that you really need to be
> protected from the elements) And then there is housing. All the different
> houses, apartments and condominiums are a waste. Government provided
> tenements or barracks would give everyone a place to sleep and store their
> totally unnecessary belongings.****
>
>  ****
>
> The better question would really have to be who decides what other people
> need. Do you want me to decide for you what you should and shouldn't have?
> I think we know the answer to that one.****
>
>  ****
>
> g****
>
>  ****
>
> g****
>
> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Andy Boyd <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Ok, research does show a decrease in violent crimes using AW starting with
> the gun ban and continuing after it was lifted.****
>
> That being said I would still like to know why someone would need this
> type of weapon.****
>
> Of all ‘developed’ nations we have more violent gun crime then all other
> developed nations combined so how do you suggest limiting these types of
> crimes?  Will arming teachers help? More guns equals less crime?****
>
> Andy Boyd****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Gary Crabtree [mailto:moscowlocksmith at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2012 11:31 AM
> *To:* Andy Boyd
> *Cc:* Art Deco; vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] The N.R.A. at the Bench****
>
>  ****
>
> "Since the assault weapons ban has been lifted, there have been more
> violent crimes."****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> I can't speak to "violent crimes" over all as I don't know how it's
> defined but gun violence is down. The assault weapons ban had zero effect
> on gun crime.****
>
>  ****
>
> "I don’t wish to take away all guns. And I don’t imagine the benefits,
> they are real."****
>
>  ****
>
> Since you are willing to take away many thousands of guns to solve a
> problem that reflects less than two percent of gun violence, how many guns
> would you be willing to ban to prevent over sixty two percent? Suicide by
> firearm only requires but a single shot. Why would any sane American
> believe that once one class of firearm was made illegal that others
> wouldn't soon follow? People such as yourself will always have a
> rationalization for taking away the rights of others****
>
>  ****
>
> g****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> g****
>
>  ****
>
> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Andy Boyd <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Since the assault weapons ban has been lifted, there have been more
> violent crimes.****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
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