[Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Mon Dec 17 21:41:17 PST 2012
On 12/17/2012 08:14 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:
>
> Paul wrote:
>
> “Anything we try to do in the meantime will almost certainly be an
> overreaction.”
>
> Hogwash.
>
> Given the horrendous regularity of gun violence in this nation, how
> convenient for people to propose that *after* violence isn’t the time
> to look at much needed and long overdue reforms. That position
> guarantees reform will *never* happen because there will *never* be
> enough time between incidents. And, frankly, I don’t know how those
> who’ve continued to advocate the “hands off” approach to meaningful
> reform dare to look in their damn mirrors anymore.
>
You are generally a calm, rational poster. You mention a solution below
(treating guns with the same types of laws we treat buying, selling, and
operating cars) that has promise and should be discussed. Watch over
the next few days, on this list and on the national stage, what
solutions will be proposed. I could be wrong, but I expect calm,
rational solutions to be in the minority.
> Fortunately, many people are far more capable of reasoned thinking in
> crisis than you want to give us credit for. Besides, Paul, quite a
> few people, including a lot of really smart ones, have been discussing
> reasonable reform long before the SHES tragedy. It’s not like the
> lunacy of gun violence in America is new.**
>
> Long before the SHES tragedy, I was beyond heartbroken by the nearly
> daily news coverage of this child or that being accidentally shot –
> and often killed -- by their parents’ weapons. And, I was beyond
> weary of this person or that being killed by a stolen gun or a gun
> purchased through the gun show loophole that *never* should have been
> sold to an individual. It’s crystal clear to me that far too many
> “gun enthusiasts” take advantage of their right to have whatever
> weapons their hearts’ desire without taking the *responsibility* that
> goes along with having those weapons, and anyone who argues that isn’t
> the case is a damn fool or a damn liar. When products have hurt or
> killed far, far fewer than those who are victims or survivors of gun
> violence, we *demand* reform. What on earth is wrong with people who
> choose to accept the shameless fear-mongering of the despicable NRA
> over good-ol’ *American * common sense?!?
>
There is plenty of room for compromise here, as long as both sides of
the conversation can actually happen. In this media circus atmosphere,
who dares stand up for the original intent of the Second Amendment, when
"think of the children!" is all that we will hear? I'm damn tired of
people trying to manipulate me through fear. In 2009 there were 11,493
firearm related homicides in the U.S. In 2009 there were also 125,464
deaths due to acute myocardial infarction. Are people going to get up
in arms about the bad health of the average American the next time a
celebrity dies of a heart attack with the same fervour that is happening
right now over this massacre? I doubt it, because this is a spectacle
and it sells. Thus, my earlier contention that it might be a good idea
to wait until Lindsay Lohan goes to rehab again and the media spotlight
turns on her before we can make any serious progress that has a hope of
standing up in court.
> Paul also wrote:
>
> “For instance, if I said "the second amendment is about more than
> protecting kindergartners from being shot", I would currently be
> lambasted as an uncaring person who is dancing on the graves of 6
> year-olds or something.”
>
> Nonsense, and I’m getting pretty tired of your very frequent
> “everybody always picks on me” belly-aching. Is this paranoia a part
> of your daily life, or do you just show it here?
>
It's not a cry for help, it's merely a prediction. When previous
attempts at calm, rational discourse have been twisted so horribly, so
many times, you start to see a pattern emerge. One that even a myopic
social liberal, fiscal conservative, and civil libertarian will notice
after a while.
Paul
> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/184429_419049228164756_1572175596_n.png
>
> Saundra
>
> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Rumelhart
> *Sent:* Monday, December 17, 2012 4:39 PM
> *To:* Sue Hovey; Sunil Ramalingam; vision 2020
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
>
> A few days after the accident when they are discussing the funerals on
> TV of the kids and are interviewing bereaved parents and getting the
> "man on the street's" view of things is a horrible time to try to sit
> down and have a rational conversation about what we can and cannot do
> to help strengthen our gun laws or figure out a better way to deal
> with mental health problems. It's a great time to act if you are a
> group that has a preset agenda and just happens to have a bill all
> written up that you have been dying to pass, but that won't help
> anyone but the people with the agendas. See our reaction as a country
> to 9/11 as a good lesson on this topic.
>
> I'm hoping lawmakers will wait until the passion of the moment has
> died down and we have some distance before we try to rework the gun
> laws. Fat chance, I know.
>
> For instance, if I said "the second amendment is about more than
> protecting kindergartners from being shot", I would currently be
> lambasted as an uncaring person who is dancing on the graves of 6
> year-olds or something. *Maybe* in a few weeks we'll be able to really
> discuss it. Anything we try to do in the meantime will almost
> certainly be an overreaction.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com <mailto:suehovey at moscow.com>>
> *To:* Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>; vision 2020
> <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
> *Cc:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 17, 2012 3:07 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
>
>
>
> “Knee-jerk reaction or fear-driven acts.” Those are interesting but
> patronizing ways to characterize the responses to these killings, and
> of the same mindset, I think, as “guns don’t kill people.” We need
> to be considering all our options and we should have been doing that
> for a very long time. Those of us who live here, own guns, and use
> them for hunting and self-protection need to be willing to look at the
> cultural issues that are bigger than our own mindsets. Might it not be
> that we need to consider restating the Second Amendment in such a way
> as to prohibit private ownership of certain types of armament? We
> already do some of that within the scope of the amendment; why not
> look further? Why not consider the way we publicize the events...the
> murderer, who may have never had much in the way of self
> gratification, can be sure if his, yes his, crime is of a certain
> magnitude, he will be remembered for the way it was publicized with
> his face on every newscast and every front page? A First Amendment
> question....dare we consider it? There are a lot of issues here,
> none of them trivial.
>
> Sue H.
>
> *From:*Sunil Ramalingam <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>
> *Sent:*Monday, December 17, 2012 2:06 PM
>
> *To:*vision 2020 <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>
> *Subject:*Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
>
> But the cartoon doesn't advocate banning all guns. It shows someone
> leaving the NRA, which opposes the regulation you find reasonable.
>
> The NRA's response to regulation is fear-driven. It's one of their
> marketing techniques, or to use another of your terms below, a
> knee-jerk reaction.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 14:01:04 -0800
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>;
> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>
> There's a difference between being prepared and simply reacting to
> something. I take a blanket and a flashlight with me on winter trips
> in the car, I carry jumper cables in the trunk, I have smoke alarms
> and a fire extinguisher in my house, I bring a space blanket, some
> matches, and a folding knife with me when I go hiking, and I keep a
> gun at home in case I need to protect myself.
>
> Banning all guns because someone used one in a horrifying way appears
> to me to be more of a fear-driven act. There is definitely room for
> improvement in who we sell guns to and how well we learn how to use
> them but that's a discussion that should happen after the knee-jerk
> reactions have passed.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>
> *To:* vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 17, 2012 1:33 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
>
> Paul,
>
> Doesn't that apply to both sides of the argument?
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 13:27:10 -0800
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> To: thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>;
> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
>
> If you want your life to be ruled by fear-driven reflex, sure.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>>
> *To:* Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 17, 2012 12:44 PM
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
>
>
>
>
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net/
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
> ======================================================= List services
> made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the
> Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.netmailto:Vision2020@moscow.com=======================================================
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net <http://www.fsr.net/>
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20121217/2ce9833b/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/png
Size: 52966 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20121217/2ce9833b/attachment-0001.png>
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list