[Vision2020] The one argument I can make in favor of being 'pro-life'

Tue Aug 28 21:52:31 PDT 2012

Nope, sorry - that is a bridge too far for me to keep my mouth shut.

Is it genocide, Donovan, that 75% of trisomy 21 pregnancies terminate
naturally prior to birth?

And is it genocide, Donovan, that 20-30% of babies born with DS die
naturally during the first year of life?  In the US, about 6000 DS babies
are born each year, and somewhere between 1200-1800 of those babies die
during their first year of life, sometimes with a lot of suffering prior to
death.

One could describe trisomy 21 pregnancies that don't self-abort prior to
birth as aberrations of nature.  Given that nature terminates the vast
majority of trisomy 21 pregnancies in utero, and nature kills 20-30% of
those born with DS during the first year of life, it's hyperbole for you to
characterize voluntary terminations as "genocide."

As for your touching story about the young woman with DS you helped live
independently, I have those stories, too . . . quite a few of them.  But, I
also have stories about caring for DS children & adults who would never be
able to live independently and who had - at best - very poor qualities of
lives that were heartbreakingly tragic in many, many ways.

What I learned is that it's not my business to think I know better than the
individual women choosing to continue or terminate any pregnancy, and I'm
stunned you don't understand that.  You're worried about women being forced
to have abortions, and it's damn disappointing you don't care just as much
about forcing women to continue pregnancies they've decided aren't best to
be continued.

And, you are dead wrong about your characterization of pro-choice women.
What the majority of us believe is that the pregnant woman, in consultation
with her health care professional, who have the right to determine whether
to continue a pregnancy or terminate it, not the government or anyone else.
That is not at all the same thing as being more likely to terminate a
pregnancy, and shame on you for perpetuating that phony stereotype.

And, as a matter of fact, I know quite a few "pro-life" women who have had
abortions due to their individual situations who remain "pro-life."

I also know a whole lot of "pro-life" women & men who support capital
punishment.

A more correct characterization of those you refer to as "pro-life" is
actually "anti-reproductive freedom for women & gung-ho for killing the
already born."

Oh, and Scott - that 1999 (based on data from the 1980s) article Dale so
loved actually may not have been so accurate, but that's no surprise as I
never knew Dale to let facts get in his way.  For those interested, you
might want to check out this article:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pd.2910/full

Another good read is:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/04/why-so-many-babies-are-sti
ll-being-born-with-down-syndrome/254869/

Saundra

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:12 AM
To: Scott Dredge; viz
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The one argument I can make in favor of being
'pro-life'

Sounds like genocide of people with Down's Syndrome. How sad. I use to help
a young woman with Down's live independently. She was a sweet kind angel
with not a evil cell in her. How people can destroy such angels from heaven
is beyond me. I worry they abort babies they think will be gay, or because
of their race, or gender. 

As to your theory, Scott. I think that a pro-life woman is more like to have
a baby with Down's because a pro-choice woman would be far more likely to
abort it. Older women are also statistically more likely to have a baby with
Down's and older women are statistically more likely to be pro-life as well.

Donovan J. Arnold

From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 10:25 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] The one argument I can make in favor of being
'pro-life'

I loved the stats Dale posted on his site.  For instance, he had polling
data that showed with some kooky accounting that 'The majority of Americans
are pro-life'.  Shortly thereafter, he had a post titled 'Search and
Destroy' which showed that 92% of Down's Syndrome pregnancies are aborted.
So let's say that both of these statistics are roughly accurate, but for
crunching numbers more quickly let's say:

*	50% of American women are pro-life and the other 50% are pro-choice
*	90% of Down's Syndrome pregnancies are aborted (assume all these
abortions are by self described 'pro-choice' women)
*	10% of Down's Syndrome pregnancies are carried to term (assume all
these births are by hard core pro-life women who are also NOT pro-choice for
other women)

Clearly these numbers show that that by being 'pro-life', a woman
SIGNIFICANTLY reduces her risk of having a Down's Syndrome pregnancy.  I
welcome any / all comments to blow holes in my theory.

-Scott

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