[Vision2020] How Many More . . .

Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Fri Aug 17 13:32:26 PDT 2012 

Is there a national registry of "insane" people somewhere, or do you just have to look for excessive drooling?

I could see having some kind of registry of people diagnosed with a select subset of disorders cataloged in the DSM-IV, specifically disorders that would make it dangerous to own a weapon, but you would have to convince me that it would protect people's privacy by keeping that registry out of the hands of the public-at-large.  I fear, though, that people's rights to privacy would be trampled all over if this ever became a reality.  If it ruined people's lives to be diagnosed with something, no one would go to a psychologist with their problems, allegedly making their problems worse.


Paul



________________________________
 From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
To: Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> 
Cc: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
 

If manufacturers sold to children, they'd be liable. Why not if they sell to the insane? Joe

On Aug 17, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:


Ron,
>
>
>" ... seeking to hold gun manufacturers and dealers liable for negligence when their weapons are used in crimes..."
>
>
>I the truest spirt of equity,how far  do we carry this? Do we hold auto manufactures and dealers liable when their products are used in crimes? Bartenders and distilleries liable when their products are used in crimes? What about holding Sears liable when someone buys and uses a Craftsman screw driver in a crime? Someone checks out a book from a library and uses it in a crime, do we hold the author, publisher and the local library liable? If someone buys a two by four at Moscow Building Supply, and uses it to commit a crime, do we hold Moscow Building Supply and the mill where the  2x4 was manufactured liable?
>
>
>It's far too slippery of a slope to hold a legitimate manufacturer and dealer liable when they have no control over their products, no matter what those products are, once they leave the manufactures and dealers control.
>
>
>Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Aug 17, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ron Force wrote:
>
>The Republicans have already exempted the gun industry from responsibility:
>>
>>
>> 
>>Congress Passes New Legal Shield for Gun Industry
>>	* 
>>
>>
>>By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
>>Published: October 21, 2005
>>WASHINGTON, Oct. 20 - The Republican-controlled Congress delivered a long-sought victory to the gun industry on Thursday when the House voted to shield firearms manufacturers and dealers from liability lawsuits. The bill now goes to President Bush, who has promised to sign it.
>>Carol T. Powers for The New York Times
>>Wayne LaPierre of the N.R.A. called the bill "historic."
>>Forum: The 109th Congress
>>The gun liability bill has for years been the No. 1 legislative priority of the National Rifle Association, which has lobbied lawmakers intensely for it. Its final passage, by a vote of 283 to 144, with considerable Democratic support, reflected the changing politics of gun control, an issue many Democrats began shying away from after Al Gore, who promoted it, was defeated in the 2000 presidential race.
>>"It's a historic piece of legislation," said Wayne LaPierre, the association's chief executive, who said the bill was the most significant victory for the gun lobby since Congress rewrote the federal gun control law in 1986. "As of Oct. 20, the Second Amendment is probably in the best shape in this country that it's been in decades."
>>The bill, which is identical to one approved in July by the Senate, is aimed at ending a spate of lawsuits by individuals and municipalities, including New York City, seeking to hold gun manufacturers and dealers liable for negligence when their weapons are used in crimes...
>> 
>>Ron Force
>>Moscow Idaho USA
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> 
>>Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
>>Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:37 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>> 
>>
>>What they need to do is just put a traceable serial number on each gun. When it ends up killing innocent people, charge all the people that were in charge of the gun for violating the law from the manufacturer to the person that gave it to them. If that was done these incidents would not happen. 
>> 
>>Donovan J. Arnold
>>
>>
>>From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>>To: Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> 
>>Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
>>Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:57 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>>
>>That I do not know.
>>
>>BUT . . .
>>
>>It has been reported by several news sources that James Holmes, the suspect in the Aurora (Colorado) theater killings, purchased his collection of weapons from a local gun shop while he was seeing a psychiatrist.
>>
>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>
>>Tom Hansen
>>Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>
>>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>
>>
>>On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:46 AM, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's a good question.  I don't frequent gun shows.
>>> 
>>> Did this Corkins fellow get his at a gun show?
>>> 
>>> DC
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com] 
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:45 AM
>>> To: Dan Carscallen
>>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>>> 
>>> Enlighten us, Area Man.
>>> 
>>> What background checks are conducted by gun retailers at gun shows?
>>> 
>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>> 
>>> Tom Hansen
>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>> 
>>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>> 
>>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:37 AM, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Tom,
>>>> 
>>>> I did not miss your point.  I was aiming elsewhere, so to speak.  I was just commenting on other parts of the article and other elements of the situation.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know when was the last time you bought a handgun, but there is a background check process.  Is it comprehensive?  Probably not so much, but you do have to wait.  How long? I can't recall, since rules/laws have changed several times since the last time I bought one without having a concealed weapon permit.  Having the permit, you've already been through a background check process, but you still fill out the same forms as buying any other firearm (still not a quick process).  
>>>> 
>>>> How do we assess mental health without infringing on somebody's rights as an American?  That's a question for the ages.  There aren't any easy answers.  It's a people problem, not a gun problem.  This cat in Virginia, if you believe his neighbors, was a mellow dude.  Do we keep folks who hold "radical" (in either direction) beliefs from buying or owning firearms?  How radical is "radical"?  Where do you draw the line?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not trying to push your buttons, I promise.  I'm just opining like everyone else on the mailing list.
>>>> 
>>>> DC
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:56 AM
>>>> To: Dan Carscallen
>>>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>>>> 
>>>> No, Area Man.
>>>> 
>>>> You ENTIRELY miss the intent of my posting.  
>>>> 
>>>> Somebody obtained a handgun with the sole purpose of killing people . . . for no better reason than their expressed beliefs.  This is WRONG, no matter who pulls the trigger. 
>>>> 
>>>> It was reported, by another source (I forget exactly), that Corkins purchased the handgun locally with very little (if, at all, any) background check SIX DAYS AGO!  In addition to the handgun, Corkins purchased two 30-round magazines.
>>>> 
>>>> NOW DO YOU GET IT?
>>>> 
>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>> 
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>> 
>>>> "We're a town o
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