[Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .

Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 12 12:56:54 PDT 2012


Do you think his not having a concealed handgun permit would have 
stopped this tragedy?  Honest question, not a "zinger".

Paul

On 08/12/2012 12:28 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
> Courtesy of the Huffington Post at:
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/seattle-mass-shooting-lat_b_1563392.html
> -----------------------------------
>
>
>   Seattle Mass Shooting Latest by a Concealed Handgun Permit Holder
>
> Posted: 06/01/2012 3:20 pm
>
> Another day, another mass shooting committed by a private citizen 
> legally allowed to carry a concealed, loaded handgun in public.
>
> This time it was 40-year-old Ian Stawicki 
> <http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Police-Seattle-shootings-were-like-an-execution-3599900.php#ixzz1wYVmZm5l>, 
> who entered a Seattle cafe on Wednesday and opened fire, killing four 
> people. He then left Cafe Racer, killing another person during a 
> carjacking before taking his own life.
>
> The pro-gun reaction to this most recent slaughter by a concealed 
> handgun permit holder? That's life.
>
> As pro-gun advocate Dave Workman, a loyal foot soldier in the pro-gun 
> publishing and lobbying empire of convicted felon Alan Gottlieb 
> explained <http://kuow.org/program.php?id=26924> to local NPR 
> affiliate KUOW:
>
>     "I don't know that there's anything you can do in these
>     situations. We can't treat him like a child, he's got his own life
>     to live and he can make his own mistakes no matter how horrific
>     those mistakes turn out to be."
>
> "Those mistakes" happen all too often. According to a running tally 
> <http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm> maintained by my organization, the 
> Violence Policy Center <http://www.vpc.org/index.htm>, since May 2007, 
> nearly 450 people have been killed in 334 non-self defense incidents 
> by private citizens legally allowed to carry concealed handguns.
>
> Not including this week's attack in Seattle, 20 of those incidents 
> have been mass shootings of three victims or more, resulting in the 
> deaths of 89 innocent victims.
>
> Listed below, they run the gamut from family annihilators to workplace 
> shooters, murder-suicides to attempted political assassination:
>
>   * In July 2011, in Texas, Tan Do, 35, opened fire at his son's 11th
>     birthday party being held at the Forum Roller World in Grand
>     Prairie, Texas, killing the boy's mother and four members of her
>     family before taking his own life.
>   * In June 2011, in Arizona, Carey H. Dyess, 73, went on an
>     hours-long shooting rampage in two communities, killing five
>     before taking his own life.
>   * In January 2011, in Arizona, Jared Lee Loughner, 22, opened fire
>     at a "Congress on Your Corner" constituent event held by Arizona
>     U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords outside a Tucson Safeway
>     supermarket. Loughner killed six people, including a federal judge
>     and a nine-year-old girl, and injured 13, including Giffords, who
>     was shot once the face.
>   * In August 2010, in Connecticut, Omar Thornton, 34, went on a
>     shooting rampage at the beer distributorship where he worked,
>     killing eight co-workers before taking his own life.
>   * In June 2010, in Florida, Gerardo Regalado, 38, committed Hialeah,
>     Florida <x-apple-data-detectors://2>'s worst mass shooting:
>     killing four women and wounding three others at the Yoyito
>     Cafe-Restaurant.
>   * In March 2010, in Tennessee, Michael Joe Hood, 49, shot and killed
>     his sister Susan Hood Binkley, 44, her ex-husband Dale Binkley,
>     42, and their 13-year-old son Jackson Binkley.
>   * In January 2010, in Virginia, Christopher Speight allegedly shot
>     and killed eight people including his sister and her husband,
>     their 15-year-old daughter and four-year-old son, as well as two
>     teenagers aged 15 and 16.
>   * In December 2009, in Utah, Justin Matern shot and killed his wife
>     and two sons, ages six and four, before turning the gun on himself.
>   * On Thanksgiving Day 2009, in Florida, Paul Michael Merhige
>     allegedly opened fire at his family's Thanksgiving dinner shooting
>     six relatives, killing four. The deceased victims were his twin
>     sisters (one of whom was pregnant), his 76-year-old aunt, and a
>     six-year-old cousin. As he left the scene, Merhige was quoted by
>     one witness as saying, "I have been waiting 20 years for this."
>   * In November 2009, in North Carolina, William Maxwell shot and
>     killed his wife Kathryn and their teenage children Conner and
>     Cameron before killing himself.
>   * In August 2009, in Pennsylvania, George Sodini, 48, opened fire at
>     an LA Fitness Center in Collier, Pennsylvania
>     <x-apple-data-detectors://3>, killing three women and wounding
>     nine others before turning the gun on himself.
>   * In April 2009, in Pennsylvania, white supremacist Richard
>     Poplawski shot and killed police officers Stephen Mayhle, Paul
>     Sciullo, and Eric Kelly while injuring another.
>   * In March 2009, in Alabama, Michael McLendon, a self-proclaimed
>     survivalist, killed his mother at their family home, beginning a
>     shooting rampage that stretched across 24 miles. By the time
>     McLendon took his own life in the midst of a police shootout at a
>     factory where he had previously worked, he had shot four more
>     relatives, including his 74-year-old grandmother, and five
>     strangers, including the wife and 18-month-old daughter of a local
>     sheriff's deputy.
>   * In February 2009, in New York, Frank Garcia opened fire with a .40
>     Glock pistol in the Lakeside Memorial Hospital parking lot in
>     Brockport, NY. He had recently been fired by the hospital. He shot
>     three people there, killing two, before killing a married couple
>     at their home in Canandaigua.
>   * In September 2008, in Michigan, Troy Brake, 31, shot to death
>     52-year-old Sharmaine Zimmer, her sons, Tyler, 17, and Jeremy, 20,
>     and beat to death Jeremy's girlfriend, university student
>     Katherine Brown, 18.
>   * In May 2008, in Virginia, Aaron Poseidon Jackson, 24, shot and
>     killed his two children, one-year-old Aaron Neptune Jackson and
>     two-year-old Nicole Aaron Jackson, and their mother Latasha Nicole
>     Thomas, before taking his own life.
>   * In March 2008, in Georgia, former substitute teacher Charles
>     Johnston entered Doctors Hospital in Columbus, Georgia
>     <x-apple-data-detectors://4>, carrying three handguns: a .32, a
>     380, and a 9mm. Johnson allegedly killed two people in the
>     hospital and a victim in the parking lot.
>   * In September 2007, in Florida, Guillermo Zarabozo and another man
>     hired a charter boat, later killing the boat's crew of four.
>     Zarabozo was found guilty of the four murders.
>   * In July 2007, in Ohio, firefighter Terrance Hough Jr. used a 40
>     caliber pistol to shoot and kill neighbor Jacob Feichtner as well
>     as Bruce Anderson and Katherine Rosby as a result of a dispute
>     over fireworks the three were setting off on the Fourth of July.
>     Hough also shot and injured two others. Hough's fellow
>     firefighters described him as a "ticking time bomb that finally
>     exploded."
>   * In May 2007, in Idaho, Jason Kenneth Hamilton, a member of the
>     white supremacist group Aryan Nation, shot and killed his wife, a
>     police officer, and a church sexton, and wounded three others
>     before turning the gun on himself in a shooting spree in Moscow,
>     Idaho. Hamilton had a concealed handgun permit "despite a
>     [previous] domestic violence conviction that should have barred
>     him from owning guns.
>     <http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwlawenforcement.pdf>"
>
> Because most states don't release detailed information on crimes 
> committed by concealed handgun permit holders, the incidents listed 
> above are from news reports. The actual number of lethal non-self 
> defense incidents involving private citizens legally allowed to carry 
> concealed handguns is most likely far, far higher.
>
> And yet, according to concealed carry advocate Dave Workman, concealed 
> handgun permit holder and mass shooter Ian Stawicki had "his own life 
> to live."
>
> What about his victims and their families?
>
> -----------------------------------
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The 
> college students are not very active in local elections (thank 
> goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
> On Aug 12, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, pony up your evidence.  Since we seem to be so focused on high 
>> visibility mass shootings, how many of those turned out worse because 
>> of someone with a CWP permit?  How many victims in such cases have 
>> been shot by someone with a CWP returning fire?
>>
>> I'm not exactly a gun nut, by the way, I'd never owned a gun before a 
>> couple of years ago when I inherited one.  I've shot a few, mostly 
>> when I was younger.  I would just like to talk about this as if I 
>> wasn't promoting a side, but no one here has allowed that.  Ever 
>> since my first post where I wondered what would have happened in 
>> Aurora if someone had a concealed firearm on their person I've ran 
>> headlong into a wall of (paraphrasing) "a guy with a concealed 
>> handgun could in no way, ever, actually be helpful in such a situation".
>>
>> Just to test my understanding, can you conceive of a situation 
>> involving a shooter on a killing spree where a responsible person 
>> with a concealed weapon might actually have helped things?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 08/12/2012 09:44 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>> I'm not denying anyone anything. It is annoying that no matter how
>>> carefully I state my points you keep characterizing them as something
>>> else -- in this case as an example of "rabid anti-gun rhetoric." I'm
>>> not anti-gun or anti-2nd amendment. In fact, I've taken my son
>>> shooting on several occasions in the past few months, with a
>>> knowledgeable friend who has been offering gun safety lessons as well.
>>> I don't own a gun for the reasons I've stated: I am far more likely to
>>> hurt myself or others with it than to help anyone. And so are you and
>>> so is nearly everyone. That's been my only point. Start carrying a gun
>>> around to "protect" yourself and you are FAR more likely to do harm
>>> than good. Yours is a fear-driven attitude with absolutely no evidence
>>> to support it. Statistics prove this, as well as the fact that you
>>> can't find one single example of a person saving the day in a
>>> (potential) spree-killing. Not one. Yet you continue to hold on to the
>>> view that it is not a myth. Mine is a very simple, reasonable,
>>> rational point backed by countless evidence. For you to turn it into
>>> some type of radical view is egregious but I'll have to get used to it
>>> since you do this all the time.
>>>
>>> On Aug 12, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com 
>>> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess there's no point in looking for other examples. 
>>>> Pre-planned, well-executed mass-murders just aren't common enough 
>>>> to give you those statistics and the percentage of CWP holder is 
>>>> (I'm guessing) relatively small, and most of these killing sprees 
>>>> happen in gun-free zones where law-abiding permit holders wouldn't 
>>>> be armed anyway.  This NY Times article claims that the Aurora 
>>>> theater banned firearms (even to permit holders), which places it 
>>>> in the category of "gun-free zones" too.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/us/colorado-gun-laws-remain-lax-despite-changes-after-columbine.html?_r=1
>>>>
>>>> If someone had you pinned down in a dark theater and you feared for 
>>>> your life wouldn't you want some way to defend yourself?  I don't 
>>>> get this rabid anti-gun rhetoric.  I notice the ban firearms policy 
>>>> didn't stop James Holmes from going on his killing spree. Metal 
>>>> detectors wouldn't have helped, either, because he left and came 
>>>> back through the exit doors which wouldn't have had them anyway. 
>>>>  Even a complete firearms ban country-wide wouldn't have helped 
>>>> because I doubt he would have had qualms about purchasing guns on 
>>>> the black market.  It might have taken him longer to prepare, is all.
>>>>
>>>> Short of a 1984-esque society, I don't know how you could stop this 
>>>> kind of thing.  Even if they were successful, this guy could have 
>>>> done what he did with a satchel full of Molotov cocktails. So why 
>>>> not even the odds and allow people the option of personal defense?
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> On 08/12/2012 07:10 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>>>> But this is a case in which someone did not use a gun to defend
>>>>> himself against the attacker. According to the Pastor, "I was up there
>>>>> preaching, and I stepped off of there into a chair and on the rail
>>>>> that went around, and I dove right off and grabbed the gun." The
>>>>> Pastor had concealed weapons training but didn't use a gun to prevent
>>>>> further harm.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, I have nothing against training, nothing against guns frankly
>>>>> (though I think it is too easy to get guns in our country). My main
>>>>> point is that guns usually do more harm than good. It is rare that
>>>>> having a gun will actually help you and the evidence suggests that if
>>>>> you own a gun you are far more likely to be harmed by it -- either by
>>>>> accident or by an assailant taking it from you -- than you are of
>>>>> protecting yourself in an Aurora type situation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Paul Rumelhart 
>>>>> <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> Here's one that happened in Boiling Springs, SC.  Some links to 
>>>>>> news stories
>>>>>> about it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.wyff4.com/Deputies-Armed-Man-Kicks-In-Church-Door-During-Service/-/9324882/10075734/-/item/1/-/jjxqgj/-/index.html
>>>>>> http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/03/25/Man-with-shotgun-arrested-at-SC-church/UPI-35931332729850/
>>>>>> http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2012/03/26/sheriff-concealed-weapon-saves-church-from-man-armed-with-shotgun/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tl;dr version:  A man with a CWP, armed, sees a man take a 
>>>>>> shotgun out of
>>>>>> the trunk of his car during church services.  He warns the 
>>>>>> congregation, and
>>>>>> locks the doors.  The man kicks in a side door and is disarmed 
>>>>>> and wrestled
>>>>>> to the ground by parishioners and held at gunpoint by the guy 
>>>>>> with the
>>>>>> concealed weapons permit until authorities arrive.  The shotgun 
>>>>>> the man had
>>>>>> brought was loaded, and he claims he was going to kidnap the pastor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know if this would have turned into a bloodbath if that 
>>>>>> guy hadn't
>>>>>> acted quickly, I doubt anyone does.  That's the trouble with this 
>>>>>> sort of
>>>>>> request as Gary alluded to.  We don't know that this would have 
>>>>>> been a
>>>>>> tragedy without his help, but it sure might have been one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/11/2012 09:52 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I can't. But you said it was a robbery, not a Columbine or 
>>>>>> Aurora type
>>>>>> situation. Certainly you can't be sure he didn't prevent deaths; 
>>>>>> can't be
>>>>>> sure their guns were loaded either. You just don't know. Paul was 
>>>>>> talking
>>>>>> about an Aurora type situation, where the purpose is spree 
>>>>>> killing. Any
>>>>>> examples of someone preventing that from happening with a 
>>>>>> handgun? Haven't
>>>>>> heard or seen of one yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2012, at 8:28 PM, "Gary Crabtree" 
>>>>>> <jampot at roadrunner.com <mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, logically speaking, how can you know what was prevented? How 
>>>>>> can you
>>>>>> know that one of the bandits wouldn't have started shooting and 
>>>>>> not quit
>>>>>> till the incident had assumed tragic proportions? Were did you 
>>>>>> acquire this
>>>>>> awesome ability to determine what might and might not have been?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> g
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Joe Campbell
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 3:46 PM
>>>>>> To: Gary Crabtree
>>>>>> Cc: Paul Rumelhart ; <vision2020 at moscow.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is 
>>>>>> Promoting . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well whether someone used a gun and saved the day in a case like 
>>>>>> Aurora is
>>>>>> either true or false. If true, when and where?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The case you have is different. Robbers who shot NO ONE and were
>>>>>> subsequently shot by an old man. Not a case of preventing 
>>>>>> violence by any
>>>>>> means.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess your next suggestion is to get rid of police -- too much big
>>>>>> government -- and it's everyone for himself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2012, at 2:34 PM, "Gary Crabtree" 
>>>>>> <jampot at roadrunner.com <mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CWP holders will be reluctant to pipe up in as much as part of 
>>>>>> concealed is
>>>>>> keeping your yap shut and avoiding telling all of Gods creation 
>>>>>> that you're
>>>>>> healed. Your opinion is looked on with favor by some to be sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A recent example of an armed citizen exercising his rights to 
>>>>>> good effect:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/71-Year-Old-Man-Shoots-Would-Be-Robbers-at-Ocala-Internet-Cafe-Authorities-162941656.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To say that a guy with a hand gun has never prevented a massacre is
>>>>>> illogical in as much as who can say what might have happened had 
>>>>>> a different
>>>>>> path been followed? In one scenario two goblins are wounded and 
>>>>>> taken to
>>>>>> jail. In another, a dozen innocents minding their own business in 
>>>>>> a internet
>>>>>> café are senselessly murdered...film at 11:00
>>>>>>
>>>>>> g
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Paul Rumelhart
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:57 AM
>>>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is 
>>>>>> Promoting . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, you'd have to be damn sure about your line of fire.  Firing 
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> middle of a frenzied crowd running panicked for the exits would 
>>>>>> surely be
>>>>>> asking for trouble.  However, it's my understanding that for a 
>>>>>> while during
>>>>>> the shooting the shooter had complete control of the situation. 
>>>>>>  Anyone
>>>>>> trying to leave was shot.  Many people were playing dead in the 
>>>>>> hopes they
>>>>>> would  be passed over.  Firing on the shooter, even if he's in 
>>>>>> body armor,
>>>>>> might distract him enough that some people might have made it to 
>>>>>> the exits.
>>>>>> Body armor doesn't make you invincible, depending on the armor 
>>>>>> and the
>>>>>> caliber of the weapon used you might still have made an impact, 
>>>>>> since he'd
>>>>>> still be hit by the blunt force of the bullet.  In this 
>>>>>> situation, though,
>>>>>> you would probably also have been shot dead shortly after because 
>>>>>> he was so
>>>>>> well prepared (vest, leggings, throat protector, groin protector, 
>>>>>> and a
>>>>>> helmet with a visor).  Who knows?  Telling a loved one "when I start
>>>>>> shooting, RUN for the exit and don't stop" might have worked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most other shootings like this we've heard about haven't involved 
>>>>>> such a
>>>>>> heavily armored assailant.  In fact, quite a few of them have 
>>>>>> taken place in
>>>>>> areas where gun use is often restricted, such as in schools or on 
>>>>>> university
>>>>>> campuses.  Harris and Kliebold wore T-shirts and cargo pants at 
>>>>>> Columbine.
>>>>>> A student who had happened to have smuggled a gun into the school 
>>>>>> might have
>>>>>> been able to have had a real impact on that event.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An interesting thing to think about, in my opinion.  Apparently, that
>>>>>> opinion is not shared on this list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/11/2012 08:13 AM, Art Deco wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's hard to think of something more foolish than someone or ones 
>>>>>> with a
>>>>>> hand gun in a disorganized, panicky crowd trying to shoot a 
>>>>>> person with a
>>>>>> automatic weapon shielded by body armor.  How many more victims 
>>>>>> would be
>>>>>> added to the final body count?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't something like this happen in the Moscow Massacre?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> w.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Donovan Arnold
>>>>>> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Tom,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While your wife if shopping Tri-State, you should be to. I mean 
>>>>>>> come on,
>>>>>>> support your community why don't you. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Donovan J. Arnold
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>>
>>>>>>> To: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>
>>>>>>> Cc: "<vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>" 
>>>>>>> <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:47 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is 
>>>>>>> Promoting . .
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You may very well be right, Sunil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's just a habit I have acquired while in the service.  Trust those
>>>>>>> around you, but keep your powder dry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I saw the poster at Tri-State.  And, as I've said before, this 
>>>>>>> is the
>>>>>>> first time I have seen such an advertisement in Moscow.  I 
>>>>>>> checked a few
>>>>>>> things out, such as its website, phone number, etc. etc. etc. 
>>>>>>> (Hey, I needed
>>>>>>> something to pass the time while my wife was shopping at Tri-State).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The more I dug, the more red flags I found.  The more red flags 
>>>>>>> I found,
>>>>>>> the more I dug.  I have so many info sources, concerning the NFT 
>>>>>>> Academy,
>>>>>>> bookmarked for reference I am thinking of discarding half of 'em.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The 
>>>>>>> college
>>>>>>> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sunil Ramalingam
>>>>>>> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've taken such a class and in the past had a concealed weapon 
>>>>>>> permit; who
>>>>>>> knows, I may again. I don't think this class is a big deal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sunil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:41:58 -0700
>>>>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is 
>>>>>>> Promoting . .
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The primary reason this caught my eye . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have lived here in Moscow for just over twenty years.  The is 
>>>>>>> the FIRST
>>>>>>> time I have seen concealed-weapon classes openly advertised in 
>>>>>>> town.  Couple
>>>>>>> that up with the increasing paranoia, as a result of the recent 
>>>>>>> instances in
>>>>>>> Aurora (Colorado) and Milwaukee (Wisconsin), and I feel I have a 
>>>>>>> right to be
>>>>>>> curious.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, the NFT Academy website has only been in existence since 
>>>>>>> April 2012
>>>>>>> and was not publicly released until June 12, 2012 (TWO MONTHS AGO).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have more info to share, concerning the NFT Academy and its 
>>>>>>> website, but
>>>>>>> let's see where this thread leads.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The 
>>>>>>> college
>>>>>>> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Sunil Ramalingam
>>>>>>> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Something legal? The nerve! Next they'll be selling guns!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sunil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:24:56 -0700
>>>>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The 
>>>>>>> college
>>>>>>> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ======================================================= List 
>>>>>>> services made
>>>>>>> available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the 
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>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
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