[Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Thu Aug 9 08:29:45 PDT 2012
Fair enough. But it is a very bad justification, and his is a dangerous
view to hold. He should be criticized for saying things like that or for
suggesting in any way that he is qualified to be a counselor about such
matters.
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm not arguing his point, I'm just making a guess as to what I think he
> would say to justify the apparent discrepancy between his earlier comments
> and his support of this one guy.
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> *To:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 9, 2012 6:37 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report
> says
>
> How is it relevant that Wilson is convinced that the man was cured? We're
> talking about pedophilia. Do you know what the recidivism rate is? Do you
> know that rate is for people who have "repented their sins" or do we have
> any reason for thinking it is less than what it usually is? Supporting this
> is taking religious freedom to a new level.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 7, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Making no judgments either way, but I bet if someone asked Doug he would
> say that he is convinced that this one person repented his sins.
>
> Paul
>
> On 08/07/2012 05:48 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>
> Doug and Dale are like a lot of conservatives that I know. They have
> rigid view how people should behave and be punished based on their
> misinterpretation of 'the word of God'. And then someone that they know up
> close and personal gets into a complicated situation and for that person,
> this rigid punishment no longer applies for this particular instance. I
> remember Doug posting something on V2020 years ago about divorce was
> blessing considering some of the bad marriages he had seen / counseled. I
> don't disagree with that. Would Doug write a letter to the judge just
> because the 'parents had lots of money which they showered' on him? I
> doubt it. I don't think it was a tit for tat. My guess would be that Doug
> knew the parents up close and personal and he writes that he spent time
> counseling the perp which he then got to know up close and personal and
> then he accordingly wrote the letter to the judge. Me personally, I think
> the sentence should have been swift and severe, and after his incarceration
> (if it ever ended), the perp ought to never be allowed around anyone under
> the age of 18. Period.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 19:18:12 -0700
> From: art.deco.studios at gmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
>
> Tom,
>
> Surely the Douglas Wilson who wrote the letter you displayed cannot be the
> same Douglas Wilson who wrote
> on page 85 of *Fidelity,* explaining how pedophiles should be dealt with:
> *“But when we are dealing with young children who are abused by adults
> (pederasty, child porn, etc.) the penalty for those guilt of the crime
> should be death”*
>
> Surely no one could be that corrupt, hypocritical, venial, and dishonest,
> and at the same time call himself a pastor of the Christian faith.
>
> w.
>
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com>wrote:
>
> Or how about . . .
>
> "Uh, how about a one-strike law. Death doesn't seem too extreme for a
> level-3 sex offender."
>
> - Dale Courtney (August 3, 2005)
>
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 5:09 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Surely this can't be the same Douglas Wilson who once strongly and
> unequivocally advocated the death penalty for child molesters like Steven
> Sitler. Surely no one could be that big of a hypocrite especially where
> innocent children are involved. Surely no decent, ethical, and empathetic
> human would change his mind just because the pervert's parents had lots of
> money which they showered on the writer of the letter.
>
> w.
>
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> A local enabler and protector?
>
> Somebody like . . .
> <image.jpeg>
> <image.jpeg>
>
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
>
> - Unknown
>
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Doesn't he have a local enabler and protector? Perhaps you have a photo
> of him.
>
> w.
>
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com>wrote:
>
> Correction:
>
> 118 East Fourth Street (Moscow, Idaho), the address of the Moscow Police
> Department, is listed as Mr. Sitler’s “college address”.
>
> http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/SOR?id=6787&sz=985
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Moscow Cares
> *Sent:* Monday, August 06, 2012 4:05 PM
> *To:* Art Deco
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report
> says
>
> Courtesy of the Idaho State Police at:
>
> http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/SOR?id=6787&sz=985
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mr. Sitler's address is 118 East Fourth Street (Moscow, Idaho) which
> coincides with the address of the Moscow Police Department. Anybody care
> to inquire?
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
>
> - Unknown
>
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think I get it. You wouldn't happen to have a recent photo, would
> you? That would remove all doubt.
>
> w.
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> Something like . . .
>
> <image.jpeg>
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
>
> - Unknown
>
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Gee Tom, I wonder who it could be. Maybe you could post a link or two
> to help me figure it out. If there any links pointing to a letter
> describing an incident with a two year old, that would maybe narrow it down
> a bit.
>
> Puzzled,
>
> w.
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> An anti-gay organization that shelters child abusers?
>
> Gee, Wayne. That sounds somewhat very familiar.
>
> Nah! Nothing like that could happen here in Moscow . . . huh.
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
>
> - Unknown
>
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <http://www.spokesman.com/>
> August 6, 2012
> Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
> Jason Felch
> Los Angeles Times
> LOS ANGELES – For nearly a century, the Boy Scouts of America has relied
> on a confidential blacklist known as the “perversion files” as a crucial
> line of defense against sexual predators.
> Scouting officials say they’ve used the files to prevent hundreds of men
> who had been expelled for alleged sexual abuse from returning to the ranks.
> They’ve fought hard in court to keep the records from public view, saying
> confidentiality was needed to protect victims, witnesses and anyone
> falsely accused.
> “It is a fact that Scouts are safer because the barrier created by these
> files is real,” Scouts Chief Executive Robert Mazzuca said in video posted
> on the organization’s website in June.
> That barrier, however, has been breached repeatedly.
> A Los Angeles Times review of more than 1,200 files dating from 1970 to
> 1991 found more than 125 cases across the country in which men allegedly
> continued to molest Scouts after the organization was first presented with
> detailed allegations of abusive behavior.
> Predators slipped back into the program by falsifying personal information
> or skirting the registration process. Others were able to jump from troop
> to troop around the country thanks to clerical errors, computer glitches or
> the Scouts’ failure to check the blacklist.
> In some cases, officials failed to document reports of abuse in the first
> place, letting offenders stay in the organization until new allegations
> surfaced. In others, officials documented abuse but merely suspended the
> accused leader or allowed him to continue working with boys while
> on “probation.”
> In at least 50 cases, the Boy Scouts expelled suspected abusers, only to
> discover later that they had re-entered the program and were accused of
> molesting again.
> “Basically, there were no controls,” said Bill Dworin, a retired Los
> Angeles police expert on child sexual abuse who reviewed hundreds of the
> files as a witness for an Oregon man abused by his troop leader in
> the 1980s.
> In response to the Times’ findings, the Scouts issued a statement that
> said in part:
> “The Boy Scouts of America believes even a single instance of abuse is
> unacceptable, and we regret there have been times when the BSA’s best
> efforts to protect children were insufficient. For that we are very sorry
> and extend our deepest sympathies to victims. … We are committed to the
> ongoing enhancement of our program, in line with evolving best practices
> for protecting youth.”
> The Scouts have maintained “ineligible volunteer” files in one form or
> another since at least 1919 to keep track of men who failed to meet
> Scouting’s moral standards. Files that involved allegations of child sexual
> abuse were dubbed “perversion files.” A master list of those banned from
> Scouting has been computerized since 1975 and is used to vet applicants for
> volunteer and paid positions.
> Only a select few in Scouting have access to the files, which are kept in
> 15 locked cabinets at Scout headquarters in Irving, Texas. But over the
> years, hundreds of the files have been admitted as evidence, usually under
> seal, in lawsuits by former Scouts alleging a pattern of abuse in
> the organization.
> Many of the files will soon be made public as a result of an Oregon
> Supreme Court decision. The court, in response to a petition by the
> Oregonian, the Associated Press, the New York Times and other media
> organizations, ordered the release of 1,247 files from 1965 to 1984 that
> had been admitted as evidence, under seal, in the 2010 lawsuit.
> In anticipation of the release, attorneys for the Boy Scouts conducted an
> informal review of 829 of the files, saying they sought to put the contents
> in perspective. The Scouts said the review found 175 instances in which the
> files prevented men who’d been banned for alleged abuse from reentering
> the program.
> The Times analyzed an overlapping, though broader and more recent, set of
> files, which were submitted in a California court case in 1992. Their
> contents vary but often include biographical information on the accused,
> witness statements, police reports, parent complaints, news clippings, and
> correspondence between local Boy Scout officials and national headquarters.
> The accounts that emerge are often incomplete. But the Scouts ultimately
> deemed the allegations sufficiently credible to expel the suspected abusers.
> Today, the Boy Scouts of America says it continues to use the confidential
> files as part of its efforts to prevent child abuse. In recent decades, it
> has added other protective measures. In 1988, for instance, Scouting did
> away with probation; its policy now is to expel anyone suspected in “good
> faith” of abuse. In 2008, criminal background checks were required on all
> volunteers, and in 2010 the organization required all suspected abuse to be
> reported to law enforcement.
> The extent to which these measures have succeeded is impossible to gauge:
> The Scouts continue to fight in court against the release of more
> recent files.
>
> __________________________________________
>
> No real surprises here for anyone familiar with the problem:
>
> http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/19/21325
>
> http://ldssexchildabuse.blogspot.com/
>
> http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/02/15/34213.htm
>
> For many, many more similar cases, Google: mormon "boy scouts" "sexual
> abuse"
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
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>
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>
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