[Vision2020] Hypocrisy (was RE: September 11th Memorial Events)

[Sue Hovey]

Wasn’t Paul’s question, aren’t all churches tax exempt?  Most churches of whatever denomination and whatever activity are, in fact, tax exempt.  Many continue to push the envelope when it comes to political activity...Gresham Bouma’s church for example, and typically nothing happens to them for their flagrant political activity or the basic morality of their leaders. (Warren Jeff’s conviction was the exception, not the rule.)  Personally, I don’t think churches should be tax exempt.  They are some of the wealthiest world-wide entities.  At a very minimum they should have to pay for the government services they receive.  I would be willing to start there.  

My personal history with Jim Wilson does not include knowledge of his activity in court or his perjury whenever that happened.  But when I was teaching my Women’s Studies Class  Jim came as a guest speaker several times and his presentation was one that was interesting, biblically based, and I appreciated his perspective, one with which I grew up even though I no longer bought into it. Nothing he said in response to student queries promoted child abuse of any sort.  

He gave me copies of the book, Your God is  Too White, a fine piece, and one from which most of the folks with whom I went to church could have  benefitted—even his son, Doug.  As I remember, it had several references to the evils of slavery.   

So this, for what it’s worth, is my memory of Jim Wilson.

Sue H. 




From: Saundra Lund 

Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 11:26 AM
To: 'Paul Rumelhart' ; 'Art Deco' 
Cc: Vision2020 at moscow.com 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hypocrisy (was RE: September 11th Memorial Events)

So, Paul, let’s get right down to brass tacks instead of your passive-aggressive patronizing BS that I suspect I’m not the only one bone-weary of.  Simple answer:  yes or no.  

 

Is it your position, then, that if the only way the head of a non-profit group like Jim Wilson (or Doug Wilson or Roy Atwood, for that matter) can keep the group’s tax exempt status is by being a deceitful, dishonest, disingenuous liar (either by omission or commission) year after year after year to the “secular government,” appropriate descriptions of that same person are “nice” and “respectful”?

 

And, as was pointed out to me by an offlist correspondent, if Jim Wilson would give you the shirt off his back, remember it’s the taxpayers who are paying for it, not Jim Wilson.

 

Like it or not, Paul, tax exemption – property or otherwise -- is a privilege granted by the government in exchange for an agreement by the exempt entity to abide by the rules -- it’s not a right.  Frankly, I think it’s an outdated model that needs to be abolished because rampant abuse has been proven time and again, both locally and around the nation.  Too, tax exemption dates back to a time when the “greater good” works were done, for the most part, in the home community – that’s clearly not the case now.

 

Personally, I’m tickled pink that some jurisdictions (Illinois & California are two) are taking a hard look at property tax exemptions – Idaho really should follow suit rather than gutting education, going after services that help the elderly & disabled stay in their communities with decent qualities of life, providing basic assistance to the working poor and economically disadvantaged among us . . . and subsidizing the disastrous efforts of big business.  I think most folks would be absolutely shocked at how much giving away property tax exemptions costs our communities.  I’ve heard rumors of a movement in the southern part of the state advocating that as a part of the NPO & religious property tax exemption process, clear public disclosure should be required of the financial loss to the taxing jurisdiction & that information should be freely available at assessor offices, in person & online.  Personally, I don’t think it’s likely to be successful because we have too many in government who represent their churches rather than all of their constituents, but maybe I’ll be proven wrong.  Idaho has turned giving away taxpayer money to cronies into a high art form and at great cost – and waste – to the taxpayers.  Huh – what a surprise in a red state . . . not.

 

 

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

 

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.

~ Edmund Burke

 

From: Paul Rumelhart [mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 3:13 PM
To: Saundra Lund; 'Art Deco'
Cc: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy (was RE: September 11th Memorial Events)

 

Aren't all churches, all across the country, tax exempt?

 

I don't know what you're referring to when you say he lied under oath, so I really can't comment on it.

 

Anyway, my apologies for noticing the guy's positive qualities.

 

Paul

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
To: 'Paul Rumelhart' <godshatter at yahoo.com>; 'Art Deco' <deco at moscow.com>
Cc: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 12:38 PM
Subject: Hypocrisy (was RE: September 11th Memorial Events)




In part, Paul wrote:

“I know Jim Wilson personally.  He's an extremely nice and respectful individual, and (despite not agreeing with him on matters of faith) is as sane as anyone on this list.  He's the kind of guy that would give you the shirt off his back if he thought you needed it more than he.  If he thinks a certain way about something, it's because that's his honest interpretation from reading his Bible.”

 

Huh – you must know a different Jim Wilson than do I because I personally don’t give a rip how “nice” or “respectful” someone may be if honesty & integrity are lacking, as is the case with Jim Wilson wanting a free tax ride & expecting government – which means you & me -- to pay for his ride.  My friends will remember how completely shocked & disappointed I was that Wilson had no difficulty being dishonest under oath.  Pathetic.

 

Personally, I don’t think it’s OK to be disingenuous – at best – just to stick the rest of us with CCM’s tax bill, and I don’t think God thinks it’s OK, either.  Lying, cheating, stealing – or being intentionally obtuse -- are OK as long as long as you’re ripping off those who don’t share a particular faith, eh?  Not in my faith, and not in my world, it isn’t.

 

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy is hypocrisy, and we know that it pains you, Paul, but it’s even more reprehensible when it comes from so-called “religious leaders” like Jim Wilson.

 

 

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

 

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.

~ Edmund Burke

 



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