[Vision2020] Herman Cain's Extra-Marital Relations

Wed Nov 30 00:02:50 PST 2011

You asked me how adultery is not also perjury.  

I explained it to you.

(If you wish, I can also patiently explain why Superman would inevitably lose in a battle with Mighty Mouse, and how Kevin Kostner keeps making such horrible movies).

Clinton never admitted to adultery… Clinton’s own (infamous) public statement said “I never had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky”.  (I think in the videos I remember seeing he even thumped his fist on the table for effect…)

If I remember correctly, what got Clinton into trouble was his admission (or denial) that there was “anything between he and Lewinsky”.   He spouted off his famous “depends on what your definition of ‘is’ is” statement, trying to wriggle out of an admission.  Ken Starr seized some email records or something and found out he was lying… that’s where the perjury charge came from.  (I think Clinton tried to stop Ken Star from obtaining the evidence, and that’s where the obstruction of justice charge came from as well… but I would have to do some re-reading to truly remind myself…)

Bottom line:  he lied under oath.  

Subject material doesn’t matter.     Doesn’t matter whether he lied about his taxes under oath, lied about faking the Apollo missions under oath, or lied about his relationship with Lewinsky under oath.  

He lied… under oath… in front of a grand jury.

That’s perjury.  

Jay

From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:40 PM
To: Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Herman Cain's Extra-Marital Relations

Jay,

If we use your definition of adultery, "adultery- voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse", then Clinton didn't commit perjury because he was not untruthful when he said he didn't have an affair, because he didn't have intercourse.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you are going to go with a strict definition of perjury then you also must go with a strict definition of adultery. I go with a loose definition. If you lie to a court of law, it is perjury. If you mess around with another person other than your spouse it is cheating. 

What nobody seems to ask is, most importantly, should a man ever be forced to testify against his own penis? Certainly, if not all, most men would be in trouble with someone somewhere at some point in time if all were forced to do so. 

Donovan Arnold

From: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
To: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:06 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Herman Cain's Extra-Marital Relations

Ok… here is how adultery is not also perjury:

(adultery- voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/adultery

(perjury – the willfull giving of false testimony under oath or affirmation, before a competent tribunal, upon a point material to a legal inquiry).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perjury

The ethics behind *who* you lie to (and about what) is a separate discussion from the legal ramifications behind each.

Adultery may or may not be legal in all states, but that makes it a CRIME, just as PERJURY is a crime, but they are not the same thing.

Both Clinton and Gingrich committed acts of adultery, but only Clinton actually went the distance and lied about his affair under oath.  That makes it perjury, and that carries (carried) separate consequences.

(Arguably the aftermath between he and Hillary may have been worse than any impeachment… but that’s probably a different discussion…)

Jay

From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 6:36 PM
To: Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Herman Cain's Extra-Marital Relations

Jay,

How is adultery not also perjury? Does the person not attest to be honorable and faithful to another person in a legally binding act and sign a legal document recognized by the state and federal government? Any adulterer is lying to the court, their spouse and witnesses. Regardless of if you lie in bed with one or sit in a chair in front of twelve, it is still perjury. 

Donovan Arnold

From: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
To: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 6:50 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Herman Cain's Extra-Marital Relations

Well, I’m not really defending any of these clowns…

… but Gingrich lied while Clinton was guilty of perjury.   Clinton wasn’t damned because of the affair, he was damned because he lied under oath.

But… I’m just dredging up the same arguments that happened back in the 90’s.

Jay

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:41 PM
To: Tom Hansen; Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Herman Cain's Extra-Marital Relations

I think it is ironic that support shifted from Cain to Gingrich after it was released by the press that Cain had several affairs when Gingrich also had affairs. Worse, Gingrich had an affair and left his wife while she was in the hospital. Gingrich also tried to impeach Clinton for lying about his affair while lying about his own. 

Donovan Arnold

From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
To: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:55 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] Herman Cain's Extra-Marital Relations

Courtesy of the Borowitz Report at:

http://www.borowitzreport.com

------------------------------

Poll: 28% Think Cain Had Affair; 28% Don’t Think Cain Had Affair; 44% Having Affair with Cain Right Now

Millions of Exes Could Spell Trouble for Candidate

MINNEAPOLIS – In a new poll of likely GOP voters, 28% think Herman Cain had an extramarital affair, 28% do not think he had an affair, and 44% are having an affair with Herman Cain right now.

Of the voters currently having sex with Mr. Cain, 52% called the relationship “special,” 38% called it “inappropriate,” and 10% agreed with the statement “I know I am Herman’s soul mate and someday we’ll be together.”

According to Davis Logsdon, who conducted the poll for the University of Minnesota’s Opinion Research Institute, the numbers could spell trouble for the former pizza executive: “There is no precedent for a successful White House run by a man with over ten million exes.”

In an interview with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer today, Mr. Cain seemed to brush off the latest development, saying, “Now you know why I got your name wrong, Blitz – I have a lot of names to keep straight in my head.”

Mr. Cain added, "My message to the American people remains the same, and that message is, 'I told you not to call me here.'"

But later in the day Mr. Cain got a got a harsh scolding from Republican frontrunner Newt Gingrich: “If Herman is in fact having sex with millions of Americans, he needs to do the right thing and marry them.”

------------------------------

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"If not us, who?

If not now, when?"

- Unknown

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