[Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register

Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Fri Nov 4 02:43:23 PDT 2011


Sue,
 
Excellent points! I actually had some respect for this report until I read it. It is clear the people that wrote it are use to writing at a junior high level and have no understanding of health, statistics, methodology, and lack basic logical and critical thinking skills. But perhaps that is their target audience. I don't think the writers are well educated if at all in the fields they are speaking about. It is clear their research involved little more than five minutes on a google or an interview with another person as equally clueless about the topic they are addressing. 
 
I find it interesting that their agenda only targets things like social programs for the poor and public education. They don't hunt for waste in programs designed to benefit wealthier citizens, or the impact of cutting certain programs results in greater long term cost to taxpayers. For example, spending $1 on publicly funded preventive health-care can save $50 or more in future Medicaid or Medicare costs. 
 
I think the Onion should consider printing it. "Meridian Mom and Her Four Friends Solve State's Budget Woes"  Has anyone sent them a link?
 
Donovan Arnold


________________________________
From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
To: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>; Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; Shirley Ringo <ringoshirl at moscow.com>
Cc: Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register


  
Thanks.  I’m reading it just now and am more than a bit appalled 
anyone would use it as good evidence of proof of waste.   And what a 
stellar group who signed on to it:  Bob Forrey, Darrell Deide, Marv 
Hagedorn, Karen McGee, Ralph Smeed, Steve Symms and a host of others.  If I 
had to choose the one I most respect for her/his integrity, I’d probably take 
Ralph Smeed, but he’s dead, so I’ll take Steve Symms.  And I’m not among 
the few who think of him as a paragon of virtue.   So I must admit I 
approached this report with a genuine bias, and Roger, I can’t imagine why in 
the world you promoted it as good evidence of waste in govt.  For 
example: 

1.  They faulted Health & Welfare for it’s failure to push enough 
people out of Medicaid and for not knowing the number who go off each year. The 
implication is there are a bunch of deadbeats getting these services when they 
should be out fending for themselves.  According to the group, Medicaid is 
now a hammock, not a safety net. As one whose daughter has been a recipient of 
Medicaid services for most of her life, I can attest to the fact that her status 
is evaluated EVERY YEAR and an annual determination is made by Health & 
Welfare.  It’s true, it is no longer a safety net. There’s a hole of such 
magnitude that disabled adults have two options:  die quickly or be lucky 
enough to have family financially able to care for them.  Recipients have 
lost medical services for glasses, hearing aides, counseling, assistive 
devices—items many of them sorely need in order to live a productive life or to 
keep them from harming themselves and others.  

2.  In regard to the SCHIP Program—the one that provides health 
insurance for poor children; the one the Idaho Legislature continues to defund, 
despite its national record of success in providing medical help to poor 
children.  Here’s a quote that should make the group’s motives very clear, 
“Additionally, experts who have studied SCHIP find little evidence that 
providing government insurance to people improves health outcomes.”  And 
their “experts” who made this revelation—the same ones who wrote the 
report.  The link cited takes one back to the report website and offers no 
other evidence.   

3.  Fit and Fall Proof.  This is an exercise program for seniors 
and others who need it as a rehabilitation service.  Gritman offers a 
number of sessions at the Wellness Center.  I’m in one.  They are 
really very helpful for those of us who, as we age, can benefit from exercise 
which builds muscle strength and self confidence.  Some of the literature I 
just received indicates that Idaho seniors are injured in falls that require 
medical care in higher numbers than the national average, so one might think it 
would be a good service for the state to provide.  The Freedom Foundation 
doesn’t like it because it cuts into private sector alternatives, but really it 
doesn’t. Some of us also have gym memberships, and many are are too physically 
fragile to benefit from the machines a gym traditionally provides.  The 
report further states the program is a waste of money because there are more 
falls now than before the program started.  Maybe so, but those data are 
from medical injury reports, not comparisons between folks in the program and 
folks who aren’t.  

4.  Childcare Programs.  There is the quote that these programs 
are “rife with abuse,” but no citations to indicate such is the case in 
Idaho.  Their claims fit right into the Idaho paradigm—don’t do anything to 
help young children or their parents, because in Idaho the legislators over the 
years repeatedly state, “young children should be at home with their 
mothers.”  So we don’t mandate kindergartens nor do we accept federal money 
to improve early childhood education. Wish I could remember the name of the 
legislator who told a young unemployed mother if she needed help she ought to, 
“get right with her church.”   

5.  They use a lot of space discussing what they would call undeserved 
perks earned by Idaho State Employees, HIgher Education Personnel, and Public 
School Teachers.  They’ve collected master agreements (which are now null 
and void because of the new laws) and cherry picked the pieces that indicate to 
them schools are simply rolling in money and their employees are stealing from 
taxpayers in many unethical ways.  One example from Ponderay School 
District which was, until this year, fairly common in negotiated agreements, and 
certainly a common business practice; that of allowing current employees to move 
into new jobs as they come open, rather than advertise them publically.  
But the group from the Idaho Freedom Foundation claims this is not only unfair, 
but costly, because it takes “more qualified candidates who would cost the 
district less, out of the picture.”  It’s moot now, but if I as an employee 
move into another position, that leaves my position vacant, and if both the 
candidate and I qualified for the vacated position, it’s likely s/he qualifies 
for the one I leave.  But the Idaho Freedom Foundation can’t be bothered 
with extrapolation.   

There’s a lot more. And I suppose there are some compelling issues 
concerning wasted resources, but taken as a whole, it’s disingenuous at best and 
often supplies questionable and patently false evidence to support its 
claims.  It’s interesting reading  though, because it appears to be 
the current bible upon which the Governor, Legislators, Tom Luna,  and 
potentially local policy makers are positioning themselves.   

Jay and Tom, thanks for the link.   

Sue Hovey 




  
From: Jay Borden  
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 8:23 AM 
To: Sue Hovey  
Cc: Vision 2020  
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post 
Register 
 Here’s 
the link that goes directly to the .pdf file: 
   
http://opencda.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/4d28b5a3768b7.pdf.pdf 
   
   
Jay 
   
From:Sue Hovey 
[mailto:suehovey at moscow.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 11:32 
PM
To: Jay Borden
Cc: Vision 2020
Subject: Re: 
[Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register 
  
Jay,  I don’t 
want to get into the exchange here.  It’s gone sideways for too long.  
But what I would like to do is read the Idaho Pork Report.  Do you have a 
link?  And no, I haven’t read all the emails, but I did read one which 
indicated a problem with one that was given.  Thanks for doing my work for 
me.  I want to see what they consider the pork in public education.   
  
Sue H.  
  
From:Jay Borden  
Sent:Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:04 PM 
To:Donovan Arnold ; Tom Hansen  
Cc:Vision 2020  
Subject:Re: 
[Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post 
Register 
  
Wow… 
just wow…  
  
1)      Would you care to provide any 
data as far as how much money is lost due to “businesses that take government 
money and flee the country”?  I’ll never say never, (I’m a big fan of the 
bell curve) but without any other data to go on, my gut tells me that it doesn’t 
begin to hold a candle to general government waste.  (I won’t even ask for 
6 links… ) 
2)      By your reasoning (poo-pooing 
the Pork Report (which, BTW, DOES provide references to where they found their 
data), I would then assume that the education system is in tip-top shape, and 
therefore has no places in which fraud, waste, or otherwise unnecessary spending 
is occurring?   
3)      Also by you reasoning, since 
“Idaho doesn’t spend any money on health care”, all the fraud and wasted money 
talked about in the report doesn’t actually exist?  (Or, is it not actually 
fraud since (you claim) no money is actually spent in that 
category?) 
  
  
  
Jay 
  
  
  
  
From:Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 
November 02, 2011 7:12 PM
To: Jay Borden; Tom Hansen
Cc: lfalen; Art Deco; Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho 
Falls Post Register 
  
Jay, 
  
You 
wrote, 
  
"Didja 
actually READ the “2011 Pork Report”? 1/3 of the report deals with education…. 
the other 2/3’s deal with health care and public renewal and public works 
projects." 
  
Oh 
well, , yes, we certainly can call public health care pork too, can't we, I mean 
who needs that? But the point is kinda moot since Idaho doesn't spend money on 
public health care.    
You are 
also right about the government contracts, I looked on the Internet and there is 
no evidence of government contracts with businesses going bad. All the 
businesses that contract with the government are fully capable, don't lie, and 
always finish well under what they quoted. And certainly, never ever, has a 
business person completely made up the fact that they can produce something the 
government needed, taken the millions of dollars, and fled the country. It would 
never happen. Anyone that insists this is not that case definitely needs to 
supply at least 6 links to verify their claims, otherwise, it is just hogwash to 
believe such outlandish nonsense could happen. I am also one of those people 
that need proof via some website for everything regardless of how ridiculous 
taking the contrary side would sound to reason.  
Donovan 
Arnold 
  
From:Jay 
Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
To: Tom Hansen 
<thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: Donovan Arnold 
<donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>; Art 
Deco <deco at moscow.com>; Vision 2020 
<Vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 6:41 
PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post Register 
You 
have given a link for the DOD’s Contract division… I assume in the hopes that I 
would do the leg work for you… which is exactly what you (and others) lambast 
Roger for.   
  
I 
suggest one of the following: 
1)      Provide 
the data requested to back up the statement. 
2)      Recognize 
that opinions that lack factual data aren’t fact… they’re just 
OPINIONS. 
  
Jay 
  
From:Tom 
Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 
5:13 PM
To: Jay Borden
Cc: Donovan Arnold; lfalen; Art Deco; 
Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls Post 
Register 
  
Mr. 
Borden - 
  
Not ALL 
contracts at the following link are success stories.  The names Halliburton 
and Blackwater come to mind. 
  
And 
guess who pays the bills. 
  
http://www.defense.gov/Contracts/default.aspx 
  
Seeya 
round town, Moscow. 
  
Tom 
Hansen 
Moscow, 
Idaho 
  
  
  

On 
Nov 2, 2011, at 5:01 PM, "Jay Borden" <jborden at datawedge.com> 
wrote: 
1)      Where  are your facts and figures (and how common it is) about how much the  government loses on private businesses inability to fulfill government  contract obligations?   
>2)      A  consumer votes with their feet… if a business winds up passing their errors  onto to the customer, a customer is free to simply change vendors/providers  and take their business to a more efficient enterprise.   
>3)      Didja  actually READ the “2011 Pork Report”?  1/3 of the report deals with  education…. the other 2/3’s deal with health care and public renewal and  public works projects.    
>  
>  
>Jay 
>  
>From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan  Arnold
>Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 3:56 PM
>To: lfalen; Art Deco; Vision 2020
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho  Falls Post Register 
>  
>Roger, 
>  
>In  addition to the trillion dollar bailouts the taxpayers all the time have to  pay for private business enterprises mistakes and inefficiencies. Businesses  bid on government contracts and cannot fulfill the obligation and the taxpayer  has to pay for it. This is common. And the consumer also has the costs of a  business's errors passed on to them in products and services.  
>  
>As to  the Idaho Pork Report, yeah, I guess if you are an Idaho Conservative  Republican you would think there is a lot of government waste if you believe  education has no real value. There are elementary, middle, and high schools in  just about every town, some with many of them.  
>  
>Donovan Arnold 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>From:lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>To: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>; Vision  2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Wednesday,  November 2, 2011 11:51 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Falls  Post Register
>
>I may have mistyped 
  something. If you are really interested do a search on the Idaho Pork 
  Report.
>Roger
>-----Original message-----
>From: "Art Deco" deco at moscow.com
>Date: Tue, 
  01 Nov 2011 19:06:01 -0700
>To: "Vision 2020" Vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho 
  Falls Post Register
>
>> This link is invalid.
>> 
>> 
>> From: lfalen 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 3:31 
  PM
>> To: Art Deco ; Vision 2020 
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: 
  Idaho Falls Post Register
>> 
>> 
>> Check the Idaho Pork 
  Report. You can find it at opencda.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/4d28b5aq3768b7.pdf.pdf
>> 
  Roger
>> -----Original message-----
>> From: "Art Deco" deco at moscow.com
>> Date: 
  Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:36:23 -0700
>> To: "Vision 2020" Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: 
  Idaho Falls Post Register
>> 
>> > Roger,
>> > 
>> 
  > Tell us exactly where and exactly how much there are in those places of 
  "a lot of waste in state government and plenty of places cuts can be 
  made."
>> > 
>> > If you cannot do this, then you are just 
  promulgating more Tea Bagger bullshit.  You then are part of the problem, 
  but not part of the solution.
>> > 
>> > w.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > From: 
  lfalen 
>> > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:15 AM
>> > To: 
  Shirley Ringo ; Vision 2020 
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Idaho 
  Falls Post Register
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I think that 
  there is a lot of waste in state government and plenty of places cuts can be 
  made. I do not think that the care and treatment of the menally ill is one of 
  them.
>> > Roger
>> > -----Original message-----
>> > 
  From: "Shirley Ringo" ringoshirl at moscow.com
>> > Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 
  07:44:55 -0700
>> > To: "Vision 2020" vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: 
  Idaho Falls Post Register
>> > 
>> > > 
>> > > 
  Visionaries:
>> > > 
>> > > The Idaho Legislature's 
  "cost containment" for Medicaid programs and help for those with disabilities 
  will prove to be anything but that.
>> > > 
>> > > 
  Shirley
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > 
  > 
>> > > 
>> > >    
>> > 
  >  Idaho's ugly 'new normal'
>> > > 
>> > 
  >  Corey Taule
>> > > 
>> > >  
  ----------------------------------------------------------
>> > > 
>> > >  Ugly, sad and potentially tragic as it was, the 
  recent shootout between local law enforcement and Scott Daniel Parker wasn't 
  surprising. The 911 call from Parker's mother indicated her son was mentally 
  ill and in crisis. Unfortunately, we've been down that road before.
>> 
  > > 
>> > >  In September 2010, a mentally ill man shot 
  Ryan Mitchell in the back as he left a Pocatello coffee shop. The shooter, 
  Gerald Durk Simpson, had been told a few months earlier that because of budget 
  cuts, the state could no longer afford to treat his mental illness.
>> 
  > > 
>> > >  That jibed with what the State Planning 
  Council on Mental Health told Idaho's lawmakers in February 2010. Cutting 
  mental health funding, this panel of experts said, would result in three 
  things:
>> > > 
>> > >  - More suicides.
>> 
  > > 
>> > >  - More violent encounters between the 
  mentally ill and police.
>> > > 
>> > >  - More 
  mentally ill folks landing in emergency rooms.
>> > > 
>> > 
  >  A check with local law enforcement shows this panel knew what it 
  was talking about. Bonneville County Coroner Jonathan Walker said suicides and 
  attempts are up, something he attributes directly to a reduction in available 
  services.
>> > > 
>> > >  Bonneville County Sheriff 
  Paul Wilde noticed his deputies were dealing more frequently with the mentally 
  ill. So, he checked the numbers. What Wilde discovered was startling. From 
  January to October of 2008, officers responded to 61 calls concerning 
  psychiatric episodes or suicide attempts. That same time period in 2009 
  resulted in 118 calls. That jumped to 139 last year. So far this year, 
  officers have responded to 256 calls.
>> > > 
>> > 
  >  Sometimes those calls result in arrests. A severely mentally ill 
  inmate needs to be segregated and watched constantly. Often, however, no 
  arrest is made. But for their own good, the person with mental illness needs 
  to be hospitalized.
>> > > 
>> > >  Eight years 
  ago, a busy week for the Bonneville County Prosecutor's Office meant handling 
  one or two civil commitment cases. But when Bruce Pickett became prosecutor, 
  he noticed civil commitments were on the rise. So, he began tracking them. So 
  far this year, Bonneville County has averaged nearly four per week.
>> 
  > > 
>> > >  Each case must be judged by two 
  state-designated examiners. Because many of these folks are indigent, 
  taxpayers bear those costs, plus hospital and doctor's fees. The increase in 
  cases means the Behavioral Health Center often can't handle them all. Several 
  times this year, deputies have transported mentally ill folks who committed no 
  crimes to hospitals in Pocatello, Twin Falls and Boise. So, cutting budgets on 
  the front end is resulting in more expense -- not to mention a healthy dose of 
  human misery -- on the back end.
>> > > 
>> > >  
  Jessica Hill isn't surprised. A licensed social worker, Hill said the agency 
  she works for has fewer clients because of budget cuts. The need for services, 
  however, has not gone down.
>> > > 
>> > >  But 
  Hill sees this from another perspective. She's also an Idaho Falls police 
  officer and SWAT team member. Too often, Hill said, officers encounter the 
  mentally ill in full crisis mode. Many of these folks, Hill said, tell police 
  they no longer qualify for services.
>> > > 
>> > 
  >  "I knew this was going to happen," Hill said. "It's not a surprise 
  to me whatsoever."
>> > > 
>> > >  Idaho Gov. C.L. 
  "Butch" Otter has overseen a massive reduction in state government, something 
  he describes as "the new normal."
>> > > 
>> > >  
  Let's be clear, then, about what "the new normal" really looks like to those 
  who get to deal with the consequences of the politicians' numbers 
  crunching:
>> > > 
>> > >  - It looks like Gerald 
  Simpson, a man with no history of violence, opening fire on a 
  stranger.
>> > > 
>> > >  - It looks like Scott 
  Daniel Parker leaving the house armed with automatic weapons and mad as 
  hell.
>> > > 
>> > >  - It looks like the guy using 
  his own feces to draw pictures on jailhouse walls.
>> > > 
>> 
  > >  - It looks like the little old lady who once had a social 
  worker to help keep her on medications, but who now must go it alone. 
  Sometimes that works. Sometimes a sheriff's deputy wades through months of 
  accumulated garbage and animal waste in her living room so he can drive her to 
  the only hospital with room to treat her, in Boise.
>> > > 
>> 
  > >  Idaho is building a considerable budget surplus. Already, some 
  Republicans are saying they want to hand it over to corporations and rich 
  folks through income tax cuts.
>> > > 
>> > >  The 
  first job of government, however, is to protect its citizenry.
>> > 
  > 
>> > >  Clearly, Otter's "new normal" isn't doing that. 
  Lawmakers need to fully restore the mental health budget cuts of the past 
  three years.
>> > > 
>> > >  Before things really 
  turn ugly.
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> 
  > >  __._,_.___
>> > >  Reply to sender | Reply to 
  group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic 
>> > >  
  Messages in this topic (7) 
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>> > >  
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>> > 
>> > 
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