[Vision2020] Fw: Idaho Faculty Salary Survey

Wed Jun 15 17:11:45 PDT 2011

"Wayne" writes: "Give me a break Sue...I've been to college. Many of
the professors aren't worth half their pay ..." Maybe you went to the
wrong college, Wayne! This is just an absurd claim. What does it mean
for a professor to be "worth his pay"? As I see it, most professors in
the region are by any reasonable standard underpaid (at least when
compared with peer institutions). Also, how could a student be in a
position to judge whether or not a professor is doing his job
correctly? You would have to KNOW the material you were learning
before you could judge whether it was conveyed well.

And please "Wayne" don't contact me off-list. If you want to make up
crap as you go, just do it in the open.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sue Hovey
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 11:54 AM
> To: Wayne
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Faculty Salary Survey
>
> Dean Anonymous Wayne,
>
> I am.  He is.
>
> Sue H.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 8:19 AM
> To: Sue Hovey
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Faculty Salary Survey
>
> Give me a break Sue...I've been to college.   Many of the professors aren't
> worth half their pay, yet they can't be fired because they have tenure.  If
> the governor isn't doing his job he CAN be fired.  We have the opportunity
> every 4 years.   Your argument that the governor is "hell-bent on destroying
> education" is ridiculous.   You sound like the typical left-winger.
>
> --- On Mon, 6/13/11, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Faculty Salary Survey
>> To: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Date: Monday, June 13, 2011, 12:31 PM
>> To paraphrase the weekend headlines,
>> "Some Professors Make More Than the
>> Governor,"  I can only add, THANK GOD.  I can
>> think of not one of them so
>> hell-bent on destroying education in the State of Idaho as
>> is he.  Even so,
>> too bad educators (k through higher ed) aren't valued as
>> NFL football
>> players--the ones who do the work and draw the crowds get
>> the money.
>>
>> Sue H.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lfalen
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 11:13 AM
>> To: Tom Hansen
>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Faculty Salary Survey
>>
>>
>> I agree with you on jobs, but not entirely on who's fault
>> it is. I think is
>> is both parties.
>> Roger
>> -----Original message-----
>> From: "Tom Hansen" thansen at moscow.com
>> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:43:30 -0700
>> To: "lfalen" lfalen at turbonet.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Faculty Salary Survey
>>
>> > What has been preached and has proven out time after
>> time after time after
>> >  . .
>> >
>> > Increased cash flow improves the economy.
>> >
>> > And just what increases cash flow, you ask?
>> >
>> > J - O - B - S
>> >
>> > When people have jobs they tend to spend more money
>> than when they are
>> > unemployed.
>> >
>> > However, it seems that ever since the Republicans have
>> become the ruling
>> > party of the House (after preaching jobs, jobs, jobs
>> during the 2010
>> > campaigns), they have yet to introduce one singular
>> jobs-oriented bill.
>> >
>> > So . . . tell me where the fault lies (pun intended).
>> >
>> > Tom "Thank God I'm re-'tired'" Hansen
>> > Moscow, Idaho
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, June 13, 2011 10:17 am, lfalen wrote:
>> > > Joe
>> > > I am retired, so I am not getting a paycheck from
>> any company. I do get
>> > > Social Security and there has not been a cola for
>> two years, but the
>> > > cost
>> > > of living keeps going up.  I probably earn
>> less than half what you do. I
>> > > am willing to accept less   money.
>> I just think that it should apply to
>> > > everyone. My wife asked for a furlough to help
>> make the budget. Instead
>> > > or
>> > > that. she was cut to 87% in pay. She gets payed
>> for 7 hours a day  but
>> > > puts in 12. She may be cut to 50% in January, in
>> which case the UI will
>> > > not pay benefits. I think that everyone should be
>> affected. It offends
>> > > me
>> > > that you think that it fine for you to get a pay
>> increase and to hell
>> > > with
>> > > anyone else.
>> > > Roger
>> > > -----Original message-----
>> > > From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>> > > Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 13:04:33 -0700
>> > > To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
>> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Faculty Salary
>> Survey
>> > >
>> > >> Have you asked for a salary decrease
>> recently, Roger? Who besides
>> > >> teachers
>> > >> should ask for a salary decrease? Anyone?
>> Just government officials?
>> > >> Not
>> > >> cashiers to reduce food costs? That might
>> help, too! Why don't we all
>> > >> just
>> > >> ask for less money?
>> > >>
>> > >> As a teacher, I'm offended by your request.
>> It is fine with me if YOU
>> > >> ask
>> > >> for a salary decrease but please don't tell
>> me that I should do it. All
>> > >> that
>> > >> indicates is a disrespect and lack of
>> appreciation for education.
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 10:50 AM, lfalen
>> <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Nick
>> > >> > I agree with you 100% on the pay of
>> administrators. In addition to
>> > >> them
>> > >> > being payed to much there are too many
>> oif them. To argue that Idaho
>> > >> faculty
>> > >> > salaries are not keeping up with other
>> state is a valid point.
>> > >> > However
>> > >> we
>> > >> > are a small state and should live within
>> our means. My wife who is UI
>> > >> staff
>> > >> > has been reduced to 87%  of her
>> normal salary. This means she she
>> > >> > gets
>> > >> paid
>> > >> > for 7 hours a day. She puts in about 12
>> hours a day. She would have
>> > >> been
>> > >> > reduced to 50% on July 1. She with the
>> help of our daughter, who
>> > >> > works
>> > >> for
>> > >> > the Idaho Soils Commission was
>> able  to line up a Nitrate study on
>> > >> > the
>> > >> Camus
>> > >> > Prairie. This will be done with farmer
>> cooperators in the area. This
>> > >> will
>> > >> > allow her to stay at 87% until January.
>> > >> > I understand the desire for wanting pay
>> increases as the cost of
>> > >> living is
>> > >> > going up, however in hard times everyone
>> should share the burden.
>> > >> This
>> > >> > should also apply to the county budget
>> and to the schools. The county
>> > >> should
>> > >> > toe the line to last years budget. A
>> slight increases might be
>> > >> > allowed
>> > >> for
>> > >> > the Sheriffs budget, but not the amount
>> requested. Congratulation to
>> > >> Bill
>> > >> > Thompson for  requesting a
>> decrease. The Troy teachers voluntarily
>> > >> took a
>> > >> > decrease. Moscow teachers should have
>> done the same. Genesee recently
>> > >> hired
>> > >> > a new Superintendant for $90,000. I
>> think that this was too much.
>> > >> Again we
>> > >> > are still in an economic slump and
>> everyone should share the burden.
>> > >> > Roger
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original message-----
>> > >> > From: nickgier at roadrunner.com
>> > >> > Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 17:27:54 -0700
>> > >> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > >> > Subject: [Vision2020] Idaho Faculty
>> Salary Survey
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > Dear Visionaries:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Usually the faculty union is able
>> to published faculty salaries
>> > >> > > much
>> > >> > earlier in the year, but we did not get
>> the data until last month.
>> > >> The most
>> > >> > telling contrast is President Nellis'
>> 487 percent increase over 29
>> > >> years vs.
>> > >> > 211 percent increase for UI full
>> professors.  (CPI for that period is
>> > >> 218)
>> > >> > For 11 administrative positions the
>> increase was 280 percent.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Idaho Faculty Salary Survey
>> 2010-11
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > We have published a UI salary
>> survey every year since 1974.
>> > >> Individual
>> > >> > faculty data come from the UI Budget
>> Office. UI Salary data and
>> > >> analyses
>> > >> > going back to 2000-2001 can be found at
>> > >> <www.idaho-aft.org/salaries.htm>.
>> > >> > > UI full professors are 23% behind
>> their peers on Ph.D.-granting
>> > >> campuses,
>> > >> > while UI associate and assistant
>> professors are 14% and 17% behind
>> > >> > re-spectively. Since FY82, when the full
>> professor differential was
>> > >> 17%, UI
>> > >> > fulls have lost 6% to their peers.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Also at the URL above you can find
>> UI salaries by department and
>> > >> unit; an
>> > >> > all Idaho campus survey with UI
>> administration salaries; a national
>> > >> survey
>> > >> > by discipline; and a UI survey by
>> discipline. The superb Oklahoma
>> > >> State
>> > >> > study by discipline is no longer
>> available to us.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > ISU, BSU, and LCSC Salaries Now
>> Included
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > With aid of the annual salary
>> survey done by the American
>> > >> Association of
>> > >> > University Professors we are now able to
>> add faculty salaries from
>> > >> ISU, BSU,
>> > >> > and LCSC. We urge faculty from these
>> campuses to gather their
>> > >> department and
>> > >> > unit salaries in the same way that the
>> UI union has done for years.
>> > >> > > BSU faculty suffer a much greater
>> differential than their peers:
>> > >> > > 34%
>> > >> for
>> > >> > fulls; 22% for associates; and 20% for
>> assistants. The ISU gap just
>> > >> > as
>> > >> bad:
>> > >> > 33%/23%/22%. For B.A./B.S. institutions
>> LCSC is also way behind:
>> > >> 33%/31%/
>> > >> > 26%.
>> > >> > > Some BSU and ISU faculty have
>> higher teaching loads but the same
>> > >> research
>> > >> > expectations, so they should at least
>> have salary equity with the UI.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > NIC, CSI, CWI Salaries Coming Next
>> Year
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > We will publish Idaho 2-year campus
>> salaries in next yearâ€™s
>> > >> survey. For
>> > >> > the time being faculty there can compare
>> their salaries with the
>> > >> national
>> > >> > averages for ranked and non-ranked
>> faculty. CSI faculty have rank but
>> > >> no
>> > >> > tenure; NIC faculty have tenure but no
>> rank; CWI faculty have neither
>> > >> rank
>> > >> > nor tenure.
>> > >> > > For many years NIC faculty have
>> enjoyed the ad-vantage of a salary
>> > >> step
>> > >> > system, and after several years of no
>> funding for the steps, the NIC
>> > >> > president and board authorized money for
>> the steps. In good years NIC
>> > >> > faculty receive cost-of-living raises on
>> top of the automatic steps.
>> > >> The
>> > >> > union has always argued that that merit
>> pay should be a separate
>> > >> > appropriation and should be awarded by
>> extra steps.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > UI Administrative Raises up 273%
>> over 29 Years vs. Full Professors
>> > >> at
>> > >> > 211%; CPI is 218
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > In terms of cost of living, UI full
>> professors have suffered a 7%
>> > >> pay cut
>> > >> > over 29 years, while UI administrators
>> have enjoyed a 55% pay raise.
>> > >> (We
>> > >> > wish we had FY82 data for the other
>> ranks, but we were lucky to find
>> > >> these
>> > >> > full professor salaries in an old issue
>> of Faculty Advocate.) ISU,
>> > >> BSU, and
>> > >> > LCSC professors have lost much more
>> compared to the CPI.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Most fortunate, however, is the
>> fact that we have UI administrative
>> > >> > salaries from FY82. These were years
>> before the corporate model for
>> > >> higher
>> > >> > education had taken its full and
>> disastrous effect. Please note that
>> > >> 29
>> > >> > years ago UI deans made pretty much the
>> same salary, and that the
>> > >> president
>> > >> > earned only $7-14,000 more than his
>> deans.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Those who justify huge
>> administrative salaries say: "This is what
>> > >> the
>> > >> > market demands, and we are still paying
>> less than peer institutions."
>> > >> If
>> > >> > faculty salaries had been keeping up,
>> this would have been
>> > >> > persuasive.
>> > >> > Former UI President Elizabeth Zinser
>> justified her huge salary
>> > >> increase by
>> > >> > claiming that it â€œwould raise all
>> boats.â€ But, as the State Board
>> > >> of
>> > >> > Education continues to approve these
>> administrative increases each
>> > >> year,
>> > >> > faculty salaries have fallen further and
>> further behind.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > During the period 1990-1995 raises
>> for UI higher administrators
>> > >> > > rose
>> > >> by
>> > >> > 21.3 percent compared to 16.5 percent
>> for faculty. When the AFT made
>> > >> these
>> > >> > increases an issue in 1995, the next
>> year top administrator pay rose
>> > >> only
>> > >> > 2.33 percent, about 3 percent lower than
>> the faculty.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > UIâ€™s Duane Nellisâ€™
>> $335,005 is 487% over Richard Gibbâ€™s 1981
>> > >> Salary;
>> > >> > > From Three Times to Eight Times
>> Entry Level Professors
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > In 1972 entry level professors made
>> about $10,000, and then
>> > >> President
>> > >> > Ernest Hartung made about $30,000. When
>> President Richard Gibb was
>> > >> hired in
>> > >> > 1977, his salary had risen to four times
>> entry level faculty. (In a
>> > >> 1977
>> > >> > interview with the AFT president, Gibb
>> contended that top faculty
>> > >> should
>> > >> > make more than he did.) Faculty
>> complaints became more vocal when
>> > >> Elizabeth
>> > >> > Zinserâ€™s FY 94 salary was
>> $125,039, five times entry level
>> > >> > salaries.
>> > >> The
>> > >> > differential with entry level faculty
>> has now risen to over eight
>> > >> times.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Pay Equity at the Presidential
>> Level Why not for Idahoâ€™s
>> > >> Professors?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > When the SBOE met Duane Nellis half
>> way on his salary demands, they
>> > >> then
>> > >> > decided that the ISU and BSU executives
>> would receive essentially the
>> > >> same
>> > >> > pay. This action puts the lie to the
>> UIâ€™s status as Idahoâ€™s
>> > >> â€œflag ship
>> > >> > institution. Each of our major
>> universities have outstanding faculty
>> > >> and
>> > >> > most of them do cutting-edge research.
>> So why should ISU and BSU
>> > >> salaries
>> > >> > lag more than 10 percent behind the UI?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Thank the AFT for Your Promotion
>> Increase
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > For many years the AFT urged the UI
>> administration to increase the
>> > >> > promotion increments in order to
>> alleviate salary compression in the
>> > >> upper
>> > >> > ranks. The increments used to be $1,000
>> for promotion to associate
>> > >> > and
>> > >> > $1,500 to full professor. We take some
>> credit for the fact that UI
>> > >> President
>> > >> > Robert Hoover raised those increments to
>> $5,000 and $6,500
>> > >> respectively. In
>> > >> > the 2000s they were boosted to $6,000
>> and $8,500 at the UI, and we
>> > >> would
>> > >> > like to see the same amounts for BSU,
>> ISU, and LCSC.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Across the Board Raises before
>> Merit Pay; otherwise Many Faculty
>> > >> Lose Pay
>> > >> > to Inflation
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > The Hoover administration committed
>> itself to "across the board
>> > >> > increases" for "all employees showing at
>> least satisfactory
>> > >> performance."
>> > >> > This promise stands first in a list that
>> includes promotions, merit
>> > >> pay, and
>> > >> > equity adjustments. The AFT position has
>> always been that as a long
>> > >> > as
>> > >> > salaries do not keep up with the cost of
>> living, then merit pay is a
>> > >> moot
>> > >> > point. When legislative raises are
>> applied according to merit, many
>> > >> faculty
>> > >> > end up with pays cuts because of the
>> decline in general buying power.
>> > >> Merit
>> > >> > pay must be funded by a separate
>> appropriation.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Collective Bargaining is the Only
>> Answer
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > During the late 1960s there was a
>> large expansion of our public
>> > >> higher
>> > >> > education system. This was good for
>> educational opportunity, but bad
>> > >> in the
>> > >> > way that this system developed according
>> to a business model.
>> > >> University
>> > >> > presidents became less like academic
>> leaders and more like CEOs, and
>> > >> their
>> > >> > salaries, as well as those of their
>> management teams, have
>> > >> skyrocketed.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > A natural response to the
>> industrialization of the uni-versity was
>> > >> the
>> > >> > rise of faculty unions. They now
>> represent a large majority of
>> > >> > faculty
>> > >> in
>> > >> > states where collective bargaining is
>> allowed. (Idaho,
>> > >> > unfortun-ately,
>> > >> is
>> > >> > one of the 19 where it is not
>> permitted.) Over 320,000 faculty on
>> > >> 1,130
>> > >> > campuses are now under union contracts.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> =======================================================
>> > >> > >  List services made available
>> by First Step Internet,
>> > >> > >  serving the communities of
>> the Palouse since 1994.
>> > >> > >
>>       http://www.fsr.net
>> > >> > >
>>    mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > >> > >
>> =======================================================
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> =======================================================
>> > >> >  List services made available by
>> First Step Internet,
>> > >> >  serving the communities of the
>> Palouse since 1994.
>> > >> >
>>    http://www.fsr.net
>> > >> >
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > >> >
>> =======================================================
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> =======================================================
>> > >  List services made available by First Step
>> Internet,
>> > >  serving the communities of the Palouse
>> since 1994.
>> > >
>>   http://www.fsr.net
>> > >
>>    mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > >
>> =======================================================
>> >
>> >
>> > "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist
>> expects it to change
>> > and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>> >
>> > - Author Unknown
>> >
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>
>>    http://www.fsr.net
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since
>> 1994.
>>
>>    http://www.fsr.net
>>
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================