[Vision2020] (no subject)

Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Fri Jan 14 14:46:14 PST 2011 

Was this the RightMind post? I don't think so!

I love how when it is something you question the standards of proof go up and when it's something you believe they go down. 

But what do I know about standards of proof? I just teach logic!



On Jan 14, 2011, at 8:15 AM, "the lockshop" <lockshop at pull.twcbc.com> wrote:

> As were almost everyone else we share this forum with. I'm not asking our fellow visionaires to rely on my word or carefully edited recollection. Rereading the pertenent posts from the spring of 2006 wiil  refresh any fading memories. Perhaps you should give it a try.
>  
> g
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Campbell
> To: Gary Crabtree
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 7:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] (no subject)
> 
> Context and a demand for truth. Nothing more. You can bs the others but don't forget that I was there.
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 14, 2011, at 6:35 AM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> 
>> I think that I treat you pretty much the same as anyone else I strongly disagree with. Glancing through the archives I see no major difference between my responses to you and say for instance my replies to Mr. Schou or Mr. Fox. The only difference in the exchanges that I can see is that they don't immediately become emotionally invested in the argument and start flailing. Keeping a cool head in the heat of the moment does not appear to be a component of your constitutional make up.
>>  
>> Now a question for you. Why did you build such a ridiculous narrative up around your little decent into "violent rhetoric?"
>>  
>> g
>> 
>> From: Joe Campbell
>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 3:35 AM
>> To: Gary Crabtree
>> Cc: deb ; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] (no subject)
>> 
>> You don't have any inclination ... to do what you just did!?! I wish you would engage and please explain why you consistently treat me the way you do, tell us all what I've done to deserve it.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 13, 2011, at 10:33 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I haven't the inclination to engage        in a did too/did not discussion with Mr. Campbell on this topic. I        will say to him that he has my complete permission to release any and all private e-mail pertaining to this or any other topic. I also invite anyone who cares to take a stroll back through the vision 20/20 archives to 18 May 2006 and read under the subject heading "thin skinned." http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-May/029780.html I think you will find events significantly different from those described. The most glaring discrepancies being:
>>>  
>>> >No private e-mail detailing phobias
>>> > No threats from me regarding flyers (or anything else)
>>> >No selective release of information to Dale Courtney or any other community members
>>> >Nothing out of context as I reprinted the post exactly as I received it
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> g
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 7:41 PM
>>> To: "deb" <debismith at moscow.com>
>>> Cc: "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] (no subject)
>>> 
>>> > I'm fine with this, Deb and thankful for the post! I've had a number
>>> > of friends of mine who have made similar comments about Gary as a
>>> > businessman. A rather large number, in fact, with stories very similar
>>> > to this in all respects.
>>> > 
>>> > To be honest, I still kind of like him. He is blunt, like I am, and I
>>> > appreciate that. But he has never had a civil thing to say to me. Not
>>> > once. He is completely hostile and hateful. I've tried to be nice on a
>>> > few occasions but it is difficult to keep it up. And if you look
>>> > carefully, each time I've called him a "jackass" it was in response to
>>> > something that was completely out of line, something different from
>>> > the usual insults which are contained in every single response he ever
>>> > makes to me. For Christ sakes, yesterday he accused me of being happy
>>> > about the Tucson shooting. That is just way over the line.
>>> > 
>>> > I've said this before and I'll repeat it. A long time ago Gary and I
>>> > shared some offline correspondence for over a week or two. I made a
>>> > huge mistake of revealing several things about my personal life and
>>> > past history to explain my anger about some of his posts: that I had a
>>> > sister who is now dead who was a lesbian; that I spent most of my life
>>> > poor and had a constant, irrational fear of loosing my job and
>>> > returning to that state of poverty; that for this reason I disliked
>>> > people talking about my job in political discussion; etc.
>>> > 
>>> > It isn't just that he exploited these and other weaknesses of mine but
>>> > in fact shared this private information with several local
>>> > conservatives who have been harassing me with those insults ever
>>> > since. If you don't believe me, just look carefully at the exchanges
>>> > from a few years ago, and look at previous posts about me on RightMind
>>> > as well as the Daily News website. It's a matter of record for anyone
>>> > who would care to look it up.
>>> > 
>>> > It was during this exchange, when Crabtree threatened to come over to
>>> > WSU and pass out flyers about how irrational I was that I wrote back
>>> > threatening to punch him in the        nose if he didn't shut up. He then
>>> > shared that message with Dale        Courtney who posted it out of context on
>>> > RightMind. And even though I made a public apology on the V, the
>>> > original letter (out of context) comes up there and here and on the
>>> > Daily News website on a regular basis. It was repeated on RightMind
>>> > recently, when I was complaining about the violent rhetoric of NSA.
>>> > 
>>> > So even though I sort of like him, sort of respect him I have a hard
>>> > time maintaining a civil relationship with Mr. Crabtree. But that's
>>> > me. I can see why others like him and I have no problem with that.
>>> > 
>>> > I do kind of wish that you had a problem with truth tables, or the
>>> > history of philosophy today and had run into me!
>>> > 
>>> > On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 5:08 PM, deb <debismith at moscow.com> wrote:
>>> >> OK, just a moment out of the free-for-all bashing and point-counter-point.
>>> >>
>>> >> I am a big fan of Joe Campbell. We sort of swing the same way in politics
>>> >> and opinions. He's also a darn nice guy. Sometimes I want him to calm down a
>>> >> bit, but sometimes he probably wants me to just shut up. OK.
>>> >>
>>> >> I have not been a big fan of Gary Crabtree, but I have never met him in
>>> >> person, so all I had to go on were his postings on V2020. I seldo (well,
>>> >> almost never) agree with a darn thing he has to say. I had no idea if he was
>>> >> a nice guy or a total asshat, but I knew he was not on my page, and probably
>>> >> was in anentirely different book. OK.
>>> >>
>>> >> About 4:15 today, I foolishly locked my keys in my car. The spare key was at
>>> >> home. My partner was not. What to do? Call the Locksmith! As I was downtown,
>>> >> I went to Gary's Lockshop--fortunately, he was there. He drove me back to my
>>> >> car, quickly and efficiently got it open, I retrieved my keys from the front
>>> >> seat where they had fallen from my very shallow front pocket just as I
>>> >> slammed the (locked) door, he drove me back to the Lockshop so I could pay
>>> >> him the (reasonable) $40 with        the credit card I had cleverly left in my
>>> >> handbag in the locked car. I was thanking him all the way, as I had things
>>> >> to do, and could still do them!
>>> >>
>>> >> When Gary saw the card, my name registered with him. He made a comment about
>>> >> me posting negatively about him on the V---I said something about not
>>> >> remembering saying anything about him personally (though, Goddess knows I
>>> >> probably have!). He made me a spare key and gave me a magnet for it (no
>>> >> extra charge) and took me back to my car.
>>> >>
>>> >> We shook hands, said we were glad to meet one another in person, and both
>>> >> got on with our day. OK.
>>> >>
>>> >> Just a reminder to me, and I hope to everyone out there. We can disagree, we
>>> >> can be nasty to one another, we can hold radically different opinions. At
>>> >> the end of the day, Gary got me into my car, and I owe him some organic
>>> >> veggies (at a reasonable price!). We are still a community, win lose or
>>> >> draw. Maybe we can stop hacking at each other on a personal level once in a
>>> >> while? Criticism, contention, refutation, debate----all fine. Let's just try
>>> >> to keep the personal insults to a minimum. Just because we disagree doesn't
>>> >> mean either one of us is evil.....
>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>> >>
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