<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Was this the RightMind post? I don't think so!</div><div><br></div><div>I love how when it is something you question the standards of proof go up and when it's something you believe they go down. </div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">But what do I know about standards of proof? I just teach logic!</span><br></div><div><br><br></div><div><br>On Jan 14, 2011, at 8:15 AM, "the lockshop" <<a href="mailto:lockshop@pull.twcbc.com">lockshop@pull.twcbc.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">As were almost everyone else we share this forum
with. I'm not asking our fellow visionaires to rely on my word or carefully
edited recollection. Rereading the pertenent posts from the spring of 2006 wiil
refresh any fading memories. Perhaps you should give it a try.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="philosopher.joe@gmail.com" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">Joe
Campbell</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="jampot@roadrunner.com" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">Gary Crabtree</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com>"><<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>></a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 14, 2011 7:59
AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] (no
subject)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Context and a demand for truth. Nothing more. You can bs the others but
don't forget that I was there.<br><br><br></div>
<div><br>On Jan 14, 2011, at 6:35 AM, "Gary Crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000">I think that I treat you pretty much
the same as anyone else I strongly disagree with. Glancing through the
archives I see no major difference between my responses to you and say for
instance my replies to Mr. Schou or Mr. Fox. The only difference in the
exchanges that I can see is that they don't immediately become emotionally
invested in the argument and start flailing. Keeping a cool head in the heat
of the moment does not appear to be a component of your constitutional make
up.</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000">Now a question for you. Why did you
build such a ridiculous narrative up around your little decent into "violent
rhetoric?"</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000">g</font></div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">Joe Campbell</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 14, 2011 3:35 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">Gary Crabtree</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="debismith@moscow.com" href="mailto:debismith@moscow.com">deb</a> ; <a title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com>
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com>"><</a><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></a>> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] (no subject)</div></div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>You don't have any inclination ... to do what you just did!?! I wish
you would engage and please explain why you consistently treat me the way
you do, tell us all what I've done to deserve it.<br><br><br></div>
<div><br>On Jan 13, 2011, at 10:33 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <<a title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"></a><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000">I haven't the inclination to engage
in a did too/did not discussion with Mr. Campbell on this topic. I
will say to him that he has my complete permission to release any and all
private e-mail pertaining to this or any other topic. I also
invite anyone who cares to take a stroll back through the vision 20/20
archives to 18 May 2006 and read under the subject heading "thin skinned."
<a title="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-May/029780.html
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-May/029780.html"></a><a title="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-May/029780.html
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-May/029780.html"></a><a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-May/029780.html"><a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-May/029780.html">http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-May/029780.html</a></a> I
think you will find events significantly different from those described.
The most glaring discrepancies being:</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000">
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000">>No private e-mail detailing
phobias </font></div></font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000">> No threats from me regarding
flyers (or anything else) </font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000">>No selective release of
information to Dale Courtney or any other community members</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000">>Nothing out of context as I
reprinted the post exactly as I received it</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri" color="#000000">g</font></div>
<div><br><br>--------------------------------------------------<br>From:
"Joe Campbell" <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"></a><a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a></a>><br>Sent:
Thursday, January 13, 2011 7:41 PM<br>To: "deb" <<a href="mailto:debismith@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:debismith@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:debismith@moscow.com">debismith@moscow.com</a></a>><br>Cc:
"Gary Crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"></a><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a></a>>;
<<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></a>><br>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] (no subject)<br><br>> I'm fine with this, Deb and
thankful for the post! I've had a number<br>> of friends of mine who
have made similar comments about Gary as a<br>> businessman. A rather
large number, in fact, with stories very similar<br>> to this in all
respects.<br>> <br>> To be honest, I still kind of like him. He is
blunt, like I am, and I<br>> appreciate that. But he has never had a
civil thing to say to me. Not<br>> once. He is completely hostile and
hateful. I've tried to be nice on a<br>> few occasions but it is
difficult to keep it up. And if you look<br>> carefully, each time I've
called him a "jackass" it was in response to<br>> something that was
completely out of line, something different from<br>> the usual insults
which are contained in every single response he ever<br>> makes to me.
For Christ sakes, yesterday he accused me of being happy<br>> about the
Tucson shooting. That is just way over the line.<br>> <br>> I've
said this before and I'll repeat it. A long time ago Gary and I<br>>
shared some offline correspondence for over a week or two. I made
a<br>> huge mistake of revealing several things about my personal life
and<br>> past history to explain my anger about some of his posts: that
I had a<br>> sister who is now dead who was a lesbian; that I spent
most of my life<br>> poor and had a constant, irrational fear of
loosing my job and<br>> returning to that state of poverty; that for
this reason I disliked<br>> people talking about my job in political
discussion; etc.<br>> <br>> It isn't just that he exploited these
and other weaknesses of mine but<br>> in fact shared this private
information with several local<br>> conservatives who have been
harassing me with those insults ever<br>> since. If you don't believe
me, just look carefully at the exchanges<br>> from a few years ago, and
look at previous posts about me on RightMind<br>> as well as the Daily
News website. It's a matter of record for anyone<br>> who would care to
look it up.<br>> <br>> It was during this exchange, when Crabtree
threatened to come over to<br>> WSU and pass out flyers about how
irrational I was that I wrote back<br>> threatening to punch him in the
nose if he didn't shut up. He then<br>> shared that message with Dale
Courtney who posted it out of context on<br>> RightMind. And even
though I made a public apology on the V, the<br>> original letter (out
of context) comes up there and here and on the<br>> Daily News website
on a regular basis. It was repeated on RightMind<br>> recently, when I
was complaining about the violent rhetoric of NSA.<br>> <br>> So
even though I sort of like him, sort of respect him I have a hard<br>>
time maintaining a civil relationship with Mr. Crabtree. But
that's<br>> me. I can see why others like him and I have no problem
with that.<br>> <br>> I do kind of wish that you had a problem with
truth tables, or the<br>> history of philosophy today and had run into
me!<br>> <br>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 5:08 PM, deb <<a href="mailto:debismith@moscow.com"></a><a href="mailto:debismith@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:debismith@moscow.com">debismith@moscow.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br>>> OK, just a moment out of the free-for-all bashing and
point-counter-point.<br>>><br>>> I am a big fan of Joe
Campbell. We sort of swing the same way in politics<br>>> and
opinions. He's also a darn nice guy. Sometimes I want him to calm down
a<br>>> bit, but sometimes he probably wants me to just shut up.
OK.<br>>><br>>> I have not been a big fan of Gary Crabtree,
but I have never met him in<br>>> person, so all I had to go on were
his postings on V2020. I seldo (well,<br>>> almost never) agree with
a darn thing he has to say. I had no idea if he was<br>>> a nice guy
or a total asshat, but I knew he was not on my page, and
probably<br>>> was in anentirely different book.
OK.<br>>><br>>> About 4:15 today, I foolishly locked my keys
in my car. The spare key was at<br>>> home. My partner was not. What
to do? Call the Locksmith! As I was downtown,<br>>> I went to Gary's
Lockshop--fortunately, he was there. He drove me back to my<br>>>
car, quickly and efficiently got it open, I retrieved my keys from the
front<br>>> seat where they had fallen from my very shallow front
pocket just as I<br>>> slammed the (locked) door, he drove me back
to the Lockshop so I could pay<br>>> him the (reasonable) $40 with
the credit card I had cleverly left in my<br>>> handbag in the
locked car. I was thanking him all the way, as I had things<br>>> to
do, and could still do them!<br>>><br>>> When Gary saw the
card, my name registered with him. He made a comment about<br>>> me
posting negatively about him on the V---I said something about
not<br>>> remembering saying anything about him personally (though,
Goddess knows I<br>>> probably have!). He made me a spare key and
gave me a magnet for it (no<br>>> extra charge) and took me back to
my car.<br>>><br>>> We shook hands, said we were glad to meet
one another in person, and both<br>>> got on with our day.
OK.<br>>><br>>> Just a reminder to me, and I hope to everyone
out there. We can disagree, we<br>>> can be nasty to one another, we
can hold radically different opinions. At<br>>> the end of the day,
Gary got me into my car, and I owe him some organic<br>>> veggies
(at a reasonable price!). We are still a community, win lose
or<br>>> draw. Maybe we can stop hacking at each other on a personal
level once in a<br>>> while? Criticism, contention, refutation,
debate----all fine. Let's just try<br>>> to keep the personal
insults to a minimum. Just because we disagree doesn't<br>>> mean
either one of us is evil.....<br>>><br>>><br>>>
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