[Vision2020] (no subject)

Fri Jan 14 07:59:39 PST 2011

Context and a demand for truth. Nothing more. You can bs the others but don't forget that I was there.

On Jan 14, 2011, at 6:35 AM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:

> I think that I treat you pretty much the  same as anyone else I strongly disagree with. Glancing through the archives I see no major difference between my responses to you and say for instance my replies to Mr. Schou or Mr. Fox. The only difference in the exchanges that I can  see is that they don't immediately become emotionally invested in the argument and start flailing. Keeping a cool head in the heat of the moment does not appear to be a component of your constitutional make up.
>  
> Now a question for you. Why did you build such a ridiculous narrative up around your little decent into "violent rhetoric?"
>  
> g
> 
> From: Joe Campbell
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 3:35 AM
> To: Gary Crabtree
> Cc: deb ; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] (no subject)
> 
> You don't have any inclination ... to do what you just did!?! I wish you would engage and please explain why you consistently treat me the way you do, tell us all what I've done to deserve it.
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 13, 2011, at 10:33 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>  wrote:
> 
>> I haven't the inclination to engage in a did too/did not discussion with Mr. Campbell on this topic. I will say to him that he has my complete permission to release any and all private e-mail pertaining to this or any other topic. I also invite anyone    who cares to take a stroll back through the vision 20/20 archives to 18 May 2006 and read under the subject heading "thin skinned." http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-May/029780.html I think you will find events significantly different from those described. The most glaring discrepancies being:
>>  
>> >No private e-mail detailing phobias    
>> > No threats from me regarding flyers (or anything else)
>> >No selective release of information    to Dale Courtney or any other community members
>> >Nothing out of context as I reprinted the post exactly as I received it
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> g
>> 
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 7:41 PM
>> To: "deb" <debismith at moscow.com>
>> Cc: "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] (no subject)
>> 
>> > I'm fine with this, Deb and thankful    for the post! I've had a number
>> > of friends of mine who have made    similar comments about Gary as a
>> > businessman. A rather large number, in fact, with stories very similar
>> > to this in all respects.
>> > 
>> > To be honest, I still kind of like him. He is blunt, like I am, and I
>> > appreciate that. But he has never had a civil thing to say to me. Not
>> > once. He is completely hostile and hateful. I've tried to be nice on a
>> > few occasions but it is difficult to keep it up. And if you look
>> > carefully, each time I've called him a "jackass" it was in response to
>> > something that was completely out of line, something different from
>> > the usual insults which are contained in every single response he ever
>> > makes to me. For Christ sakes, yesterday he accused me of being happy
>> > about the Tucson shooting. That is just way over the line.
>> > 
>> > I've said this before and I'll repeat it. A long time ago Gary and I
>> > shared some offline correspondence for over a week or two. I made a
>> > huge mistake of revealing several things about my personal life and
>> > past history to explain my anger about some of his posts: that I had a
>> > sister who is now dead who was a lesbian; that I spent most of my life
>> > poor and had a constant, irrational fear of loosing my job and
>> > returning to that state of poverty; that for this reason I disliked
>> > people talking about my job in political discussion; etc.
>> > 
>> > It isn't just that he exploited these and other weaknesses of mine but
>> > in fact shared this private information with several local
>> > conservatives who have been harassing me with those insults ever
>> > since. If you don't believe me, just look carefully at the exchanges
>> > from a few years ago, and look at previous posts about me on RightMind
>> > as well as the Daily News website. It's a matter of record for anyone
>> > who would care to look it up.
>> > 
>> > It was during this exchange, when Crabtree threatened to come over to
>> > WSU and pass out flyers about how irrational I was that I wrote back
>> > threatening to punch him in the nose if he didn't shut up. He then
>> > shared that message with Dale Courtney who posted it out of context on
>> > RightMind. And even though I made a public apology on the V, the
>> > original letter (out of context) comes up there and here and on the
>> > Daily News website on a regular basis. It was repeated on RightMind
>> > recently, when I was complaining about the violent rhetoric of NSA.
>> > 
>> > So even though I sort of like him, sort of respect him I have a hard
>> > time maintaining a civil relationship with Mr. Crabtree. But that's
>> > me. I can see why others like him and I have no problem with that.
>> > 
>> > I do kind of wish that you had a problem with truth tables, or the
>> > history of philosophy today and had run into me!
>> > 
>> > On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 5:08 PM, deb <debismith at moscow.com> wrote:
>> >> OK, just a moment out of the free-for-all bashing and point-counter-point.
>> >>
>> >> I am a big fan of Joe Campbell. We sort of swing the same way in politics
>> >> and opinions. He's also a darn nice guy. Sometimes I want him to calm down a
>> >> bit, but sometimes he probably wants me to just shut up. OK.
>> >>
>> >> I have not been a big fan of Gary Crabtree, but I have never met him in
>> >> person, so all I had to go on were his postings on V2020. I seldo (well,
>> >> almost never) agree with a darn thing he has to say. I had no idea if he was
>> >> a nice guy or a total asshat, but I knew he was not on my page, and probably
>> >> was in anentirely different book. OK.
>> >>
>> >> About 4:15 today, I foolishly locked my keys in my car. The spare key was at
>> >> home. My partner was not. What to do? Call the Locksmith! As I was downtown,
>> >> I went to Gary's Lockshop--fortunately, he was there. He drove me back to my
>> >> car, quickly and efficiently got it open, I retrieved my keys from the front
>> >> seat where they had fallen from my very shallow front pocket just as I
>> >> slammed the (locked) door, he drove me back to the Lockshop so I could pay
>> >> him the (reasonable) $40 with the credit card I had cleverly left in my
>> >> handbag in the locked car. I was    thanking him all the way, as I had things
>> >> to do, and could still do them!
>> >>
>> >> When Gary saw the card, my name registered with him. He made a comment about
>> >> me posting negatively about him    on the V---I said something about not
>> >> remembering saying anything about him personally (though, Goddess knows I
>> >> probably have!). He made me a spare key and gave me a magnet for it (no
>> >> extra charge) and took me back to my car.
>> >>
>> >> We shook hands, said we were glad to meet one another in person, and both
>> >> got on with our day. OK.
>> >>
>> >> Just a reminder to me, and I hope to everyone out there. We can disagree, we
>> >> can be nasty to one another, we can hold radically different opinions. At
>> >> the end of the day, Gary got me into my car, and I owe him some organic
>> >> veggies (at a reasonable price!). We are still a community, win lose or
>> >> draw. Maybe we can stop hacking at each other on a personal level once in a
>> >> while? Criticism, contention, refutation, debate----all fine. Let's just try
>> >> to keep the personal insults to a minimum. Just because we disagree doesn't
>> >> mean either one of us is evil.....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> =======================================================
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>> >>
> 
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