[Vision2020] evil in Tucson

Wed Jan 12 20:27:03 PST 2011

Hi Matt,

I'll start out by saying that I haven't been reading most (95%+) V2020 posts
recently, mostly because there have just been so many of them, but also
because just exactly what I thought was going to happen here has, in fact,
happened, and I opted not to spend my time reading the endless multitude of
"Yeah, but your side is worse than my side" back & forths.  I'm not saying
that the many who want to play that game with respect to the tragedy in
Tucson shouldn't be having the (futile, IMHO) doing so . . . just that I
didn't want to read it.

I will say that I have looked at a very few posts & was pleasantly surprised
to see some shining exceptions (again, IMHO) to the "Yeah, but" back &
forth, and I found your two previous posts in that category.

Thus, I'm sorry to see that you've fallen into the very "division" trap you
entreated us to guard against.  There's no other explanation for your second
paragraph while choosing to remain stunningly silent with respect to the
gross abuses of those on the right use this tragedy to advance their
political agendas & to ridicule those on the left while specifically
"calling out" those you think are on the left for doing so.

It's a darn shame and I'm disappointed, Matt, particularly given the moronic
antics of Sarah Palin spinning like hell to make herself the victim in this
tragedy . . . I've seen nothing more nauseating from either side.  It's
flatly disgusting & un-American - not to mention blatantly dishonest (with
respect particularly to her pathetic attempt at revisionist history to
explain away her despicable map) , but most Americans have learned to expect
nothing more from her.  That, however, doesn't excuse her inexcusable
behavior.  Or, how about Boehner bailing on the memorial service to instead
attend a posh "reception" (aka fundraiser) thrown by his PAC?  It seems to
me that's an excellent example of partisanship at its lowest and taking full
advantage of the tragedy advance his political agenda & even make money off
of it.

When you call out what you find offensive one side - and that also applies
to your third paragraph -- while keeping quiet about gross exploitation on
the other side, you're only showing your hypocrisy, no matter how noble your
earlier sentiments.

Further, you wrote:

"I don't agree with some, using this tragedy for further advancements of
political agendas and to ridicule the right. Already, talks of gun control
have been mentioned. Along with freedom of speech restrictions."

I'm sure you didn't mean to imply those on the right haven't proposed gun
control & restricting freedom of speech following the Tucson tragedy, right?
Surely you're aware, for instance, that Republican Peter King is the one
advocating that people shouldn't be able to carry within 1000 feet of
federal officials, and that he's gotten other Republican (as well as
Democrat) support?

And, you're aware, of course, that the emergency legislation passed in
Arizona to restrict the free speech of the notorious Westboro Baptist Church
was unanimously passed by a Republican Arizona legislature & signed into law
by a Republican governor, correct?  Do you disagree with that restriction on
the freedom of speech?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you meant to say above & reading more into
it, but that's the plain reading of what you wrote.  Feel free to restate if
you like.

I find the sentiments in your last paragraph laudable, but when you yourself
are unwilling to quit the finger-pointing that leads to the extreme division
facing our nation, is it any surprise that those who excel at violent
vitriolic rhetoric - which may be the only skill they have -- don't want to
behave any better?

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.

~ Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2010 through life plus
70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
author.*****

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Matt Decker
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:43 AM
To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson

So we both agree that both sides need to stop or tone down this violent
biased rhetoric.I just don't see it happening any time soon though. Our
society is based on it.

I don't agree with some, using this tragedy for further advancements of
political agendas and to ridicule the right. Already, talks of gun control
have been mentioned. Along with freedom of speech restrictions. How such
speech as "rallying the troops" or "it's battle time", should be held
accountable. Personally I don't like it, but don't feel should be held
accountable.

When this story first came out, some on this site mentioned how the shooting
was probably a radical christian, or how Palin should be held accountable.
There were no theories of how this guy was nuts or how our society in a
collective manner might occasionally mold a twisted or naive individual. How
our music, video gamse, parenting, schooling, sports, backgrounds, etc etc,
help mold each individual. Our hope is that each citizen has the ability to
separate talk from action.

I believe Paul mentioned earlier that we shouldn't jump to conclusions. I
agreed. When the Hason shooting occurred, the news media stated the same.
Now though, since the alleged shooter is a white guy some have used this
tragedy for gain. These motives are what I can't stand and feel helps divide
our nation further. Never let a tragedy go to waste right?

My hope from this terrible tragedy, is that both sides will realize that
this talk does no good. That they will show leadership and take the higher
ground and stop the violent based rhetoric.

Matt
> From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:50:26 -0800
> To: mattd2107 at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson
> 
> Here is a dilemma.
> 
> Either the doom and gloom rhetoric of the right works to get them more
votes or it does not.
> 
> If it doesn't work, it is useless and offensive and should be stopped
because it isn't doing any good and is offensive.
> 
> If it does succeed in getting more people to come to the polls, then
you're going to have to explain how its influence stops there.
> 
> How does the rhetoric succeed in getting folks to vote but does not
influence human action in any other way?
> 
> That would be quite a psychological story to tell! Please tell me how it
goes!
> 
> I opt for the first option. It is useless insulting garbage that is
pulling our country apart. Both sides should stop.
> 
> Or was your previous post just a joke?
> 
> 
> On Jan 11, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Well I know the media would be saying we shouldn't jump to conclusions,
just as they with the Hasan shootings.
> > 
> > Question:
> > 
> > If rhetoric is to be held accountable, how can we do that with first
amendment? 
> > 
> > Should musicians be held accountable? Video game makers?
> > 
> > The alleged shooter like to listen to Drowning Pool's Let the bodies hit
the floor.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:58:31 -0800
> > > From: thansen at moscow.com
> > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] evil in Tucson
> > > 
> > > Question:
> > > 
> > > What would we be discussing if the only thing we knew about the
shooter
> > > was that he was a foreign exchange student attending the University of
> > > Arizona and that his name is Abdul Zahir?
> > > 
> > > What then?
> > > 
> > > Tom Hansen
> > > Moscow, Idaho
> > > 
> > > "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
change
> > > and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> > > 
> > > - Unknown
> > > 
> > > 
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> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> 
> =======================================================
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