[Vision2020] Collective Bargaining Abolition Bill Will Not GoForward
Sue Hovey
suehovey at moscow.com
Sun Feb 20 14:58:29 PST 2011
That's what the sponsor said in presenting it to the committee. I think,
though, that it's a not-so-subtle threat to public school employees to quit
opposing the Luna bills (which would pretty well eliminate bargaining
anyway) and fall in line.
Sue
-----Original Message-----
From: nickgier at roadrunner.com
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 7:08 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com ; Kai Eiselein
Subject: [Vision2020] Collective Bargaining Abolition Bill Will Not
GoForward
Greetings,
I just heard from the IEA General Counsel and he said that even though the
CB abolition bill was printed today, there will be no hearings and no action
on it until next year.
This is hard to believe but it comes from a rock solid source.
Now back to the issue at hand: the SBOE attack on faculty governance.
Nick Gier, President, IFT Higher Education Council
---- Kai Eiselein <fotopro63 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sue,
> Indentured servants? Really?
> I wonder if you know what an indentured servant is/was after that
> statement.
> Of course, it could just be unwavering union loyalty speaking... or maybe
> you are just posturing.
> > From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
> > Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 56, Issue 172
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 17:12:55 -0800
> >
> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
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> >
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> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > vision2020-request at moscow.com
> >
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> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Presidents' Day Education Rally (Tom Hansen)
> > 2. Re: An Item of Major Interest . . . (Sue Hovey)
> > 3. Re: Vandalism blamed on politics (Sue Hovey)
> > 4. Sorry Nicky, Name's Taken (Ron Force)
> > 5. Re: House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty - FederalHealth Care .
> > . . (Joe Campbell)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:56:32 -0800 (PST)
> > From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Presidents' Day Education Rally
> > To: "Donna Woolston" <appearances at mail.moscow.com>, "Friends of the
> > Clearwater" <foc at friendsoftheclearwater.org>, "Fritz Knorr"
> > <fritzknorr at gmail.com>, "Jeanne McHale" <jeannemchale at hotmail.com>,
> > "Joann Muneta" <Jmuneta at uidaho.edu>, "Linda Pall" <lpall at moscow.com>,
> > "Lois Blackburn" <lblackburn at turbonet.com>, "Moscow Vision 2020"
> > <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Sally Fredericks" <dickfred at moscow.com>,
> > "Sally Perrine" <sperrine at potlatch.com>, "Vera White"
> > <vnwhite at cableone.net>
> > Message-ID: <4ad1ed9091a6d480c61ac0aee227c04c.squirrel at secure.fsr.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > Monday, 12:00 noon - Friendship Square
> >
> > http://www.MoscowCares.com/EducationRally
> >
> > Seeya there, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> > "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
> > change
> > and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> >
> > - Unknown
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 12:41:22 -1000
> > From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An Item of Major Interest . . .
> > To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>, "Joe Campbell"
> > <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>, "Dave" <tiedye at turbonet.com>,
> > "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Message-ID: <458DCC1F93994136B99B2DE103CF249A at SuePC>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > reply-type=original
> >
> > And today in the halls of the Idaho Statehouse Senators voted to print a
> > bill which would abolish collective bargaining by public employees.
> >
> > Sue H.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Hansen
> > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:41 AM
> > To: Joe Campbell ; Dave ; vision2020
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An Item of Major Interest . . .
> >
> > Courtesy of the USA Today at:
> >
> > http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-17-public-unions_N.htm
> >
> > "An estimated 25,000 teachers and others flooded the Wisconsin Capitol
> > on
> > Thursday as Democratic lawmakers left the state to stymie a vote on the
> > governor's proposal to reduce collective bargaining rights and benefits
> > for public workers.
> >
> > Labor leaders accused Republican Gov. Scott Walker of using a budget
> > shortfall to bust unions representing teachers and other public workers.
> >
> > As Republicans tried to begin Senate business, observers screamed,
> > "Freedom! Democracy! Unions!"
> >
> > Many schools across the state were closed because teachers had called in
> > sick. Walker said he was prepared to call in the National Guard."
> >
> > -------------
> >
> > It seems that ALL fourteen senate democrats left the state to prevent a
> > vote on Wisconsin's union-killing bill. Without at least one of the
> > senate Democrats, there is no quorum. No quorum, no vote.
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, February 18, 2011 5:20 am, Joe Campbell wrote:
> > > I like how they include the point about providing for "employee
> > > rights" so
> > > no one can complain!
> > >
> > > I heard a similar report on NPR last night, suggesting that the trend
> > > was
> > > national, as well.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Feb 17, 2011, at 11:12 PM, Dave <tiedye at turbonet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Listen to this morning's (Thursday's) Democracy Now! The attack on,
> > >> well, people, is nationwide.
> > >>
> > >> Dave
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 02/17/2011 03:23 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:
> > >>> Ya wanna know what the boys and girls of the Senate State Affairs
> > >>> Committee will be talkin' about tomorrow?
> > >>>
> > >>> --------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> RS20248
> > >>>
> > >>> The purpose of this bill is to change sections of Idaho Code to
> > >>> create
> > >>> public policy to prohibit public sector collective bargaining, to
> > >>> provide
> > >>> for public employee rights and to prohibit public employee strikes.
> > >>>
> > >>> Sponsor: Senator Shirley McKague
> > >>>
> > >>> --------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> I kinda wonder how they're gonna sugar-coat this?
> > >>>
> > >>> Hmmm.
> > >>>
> > >>> Stay tuned, Moscow.
> > >>>
> > >>> Tom Hansen
> > >>> Moscow, Idaho
> > >>>
> > >>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
> > >>> change
> > >>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> > >>>
> > >>> - Unknown
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> =======================================================
> > >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >>> http://www.fsr.net
> > >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >>> =======================================================
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Windows, OSX, or Linux is the same choice as:
> > >> McDonald's, Burger King, or a (real) Co-Op.
> > >>
> > >> =======================================================
> > >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> http://www.fsr.net
> > >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> =======================================================
> > >
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > =======================================================
> > >
> >
> >
> > "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
> > change
> > and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> >
> > - Unknown
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:15:58 -1000
> > From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vandalism blamed on politics
> > To: "Dave" <tiedye at turbonet.com>, "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Message-ID: <687CBA0D94D849599D970E75C20DFEBC at SuePC>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
> > reply-type=original
> >
> > To Dan & Dave
> >
> > Umbrage....Cripes. And you spend all that space posturing when the Supt
> > and his ilk in the legislature are planning to make teachers indentured
> > servants. You don't have that power, so no, I'd never confront either of
> > you on your mother's doorstep. In fact, given your political views, I
> > can't
> > much imagine confronting you at all.
> >
> > I spent my teaching career as an active member of a union that fought
> > for
> > every gain we made--issues which covered items most folks took for
> > granted.
> > Perhaps going to his mother's house to confront him would be
> > unnecessary.
> > The next time he goes to visit, maybe, in a move to discourage him,
> > she'll
> > just come out from under the porch and bite him on the leg.
> >
> > Sue H
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave
> > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:05 PM
> > To: vision2020
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vandalism blamed on politics
> >
> > I agree with Dan.
> >
> > However I still think Luna vandalized his own truck for the publicity
> > and political points. It's the "Republican" thing to do.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 02/17/2011 12:55 PM, Dan Carscallen wrote:
> > > I take a little umbrage at this, as an elected official.
> > >
> > > I don't think it appropriate to confront someone at their mother's
> > > house,
> > > or at their own house, or in any private setting. Yes, I realize that
> > > there are occasions when (in my case) city business will come up, like
> > > at
> > > some other city function, my kids' activities, or even a Moscow Bear
> > > game.
> > > Suffice it to say, if I'm at one of my kids' events or a Bear football
> > > game, you're not going to get my undivided attention.
> > >
> > > As far as going to my mother's house, or even my house for that
> > > matter,
> > > I'm not sure that's going to do you much good. I don't really confide
> > > in
> > > my mother about what's going on in the city, and she really doesn't
> > > care
> > > as long as I'm not embarrassing her on TV (okay the peeing in the pool
> > > comment was close . . .) I won't comment on age, because that's just
> > > not
> > > gentlemanly.
> > >
> > > Anyhow, if you've got comments or concerns about something I'm doing,
> > > don't talk to my mom or my wife or any other member of my family. Take
> > > it
> > > up with me.
> > >
> > > Love or hate Tom Luna, does confronting his mother about what he's
> > > doing
> > > really further one's cause?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> > > [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Sue Hovey
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 12:32 PM
> > > To: Joe Campbell; Tom Hansen
> > > Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vandalism blamed on politics
> > >
> > > While I would never resort to damaging an innocent vehicle, I'd sure
> > > be
> > > willing to confront Luna, even at his mother's house. I'm older than
> > > she
> > > is, so she ought to be able to deal with it.
> > >
> > > Sue H
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joe Campbell
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 4:33 AM
> > > To: Tom Hansen
> > > Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vandalism blamed on politics
> > >
> > > Luna more or less says "I'm not blaming anyone -- but it was likely
> > > liberals."
> > >
> > > Imagine if he was blaming someone!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Feb 16, 2011, at 6:06 AM, "Tom Hansen"<thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Courtesy of today's (February 16, 2011) Spokesman-Review.
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> Vandalism blamed on politics
> > >> Luna?s truck damaged amid debate over schools plan
> > >>
> > >> BOISE ? Vandals slashed two tires and spray-painted the truck of
> > >> Idaho?s public schools chief as the furor over his proposed education
> > >> reforms appeared to grow uglier.
> > >>
> > >> Superintendent of Public Instruction Tom Luna said he woke up early
> > >> Tuesday and found the word ?Luna? painted on the truck with a slash
> > >> through the letters.
> > >>
> > >> ?I?m not pointing any fingers at any individuals or groups, but
> > >> there?s no doubt in my mind? the vandalism involved the reforms, Luna
> > >> told the Associated Press.
> > >>
> > >> Nampa police were investigating and have not yet determined a motive
> > >> or identified any suspects, Deputy Chief Craig Kingsbury said.
> > >>
> > >> Luna?s sweeping overhaul calls for introducing merit pay and
> > >> eliminating tenure for new teachers while expanding online courses.
> > >> Idaho would increase class sizes to pay for a bulk of the reforms and
> > >> cut about 770 teaching positions as more courses are taught online.
> > >>
> > >> Hearings on the education reforms were expected to continue Tuesday
> > >> in
> > >> the Idaho Senate, where the legislation was introduced earlier this
> > >> month and is being reworked amid opposition from teachers, parents
> > >> and
> > >> some lawmakers.
> > >>
> > >> Luna was heckled Tuesday morning after a live newscast in a downtown
> > >> Boise coffee shop, and he said he filed a police report after an
> > >> angry
> > >> teacher went to his mother?s house over the weekend. Police were
> > >> investigating but have not found any suspects.
> > >>
> > >> Luna denounced organizers of the opposition to his reforms, saying
> > >> e-mails have been sent out that included the home addresses and phone
> > >> numbers of elected officials. Actions that resulted in someone going
> > >> to his 71-year-old mother?s home amounted to ?union thuggery,? he
> > >> said.
> > >>
> > >> The Idaho Education Association has denied sending any e-mails with
> > >> home addresses or phone numbers.
> > >>
> > >> ?The IEA condemns vandalism and urges that anyone found to be
> > >> responsible be prosecuted for their actions,? association President
> > >> Sherri Wood said.
> > >> ?We do not resort to violence or harassment to solve problems.?
> > >>
> > >> --------------------
> > >>
> > >> Gov. Butch Otter and state Superintendent of Schools Tom Luna call
> > >> for
> > >> civil discourse on school reform Tuesday, after Luna?s vehicle was
> > >> vandalized the previous evening and Luna was heckled at a coffee shop
> > >> and confronted by an angry teacher outside his mother?s house.
> > >>
> > >> http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2011/02/16/cop_newotter16_t620.jpg
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > >>
> > >> Tom Hansen
> > >> Moscow, Idaho
> > >>
> > >> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
> > >> change and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> > >>
> > >> - Unknown
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> =======================================================
> > >> List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
> > >> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> http://www.fsr.net
> > >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> =======================================================
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
> > > communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > =======================================================
> > >
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > =======================================================
> > >
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > =======================================================
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Windows, OSX, or Linux is the same choice as:
> > McDonald's, Burger King, or a (real) Co-Op.
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:27:05 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Sorry Nicky, Name's Taken
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Message-ID: <181484.77120.qm at web46104.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20110218/969d3f63/attachment-0001.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 17:12:43 -0800
> > From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty -
> > FederalHealth Care . . .
> > To: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Message-ID: <03DBBF6C-1920-4692-B062-3D9F46B206C4 at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > No Donovan; I'm just criticizing your argument.
> >
> > You make it seem like the mere criticism of your argument is some kind
> > of insult. It isn't.
> >
> > And I don't see how we get from your bad argument to my being a "pompous
> > ass." In fact we don't. That's just another bad argument!
> >
> > On Feb 18, 2011, at 11:50 AM, Donovan Arnold
> > <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > You are again intentionally just being a pompous ass. It has become so
> > > nature for you to put something smartassish in every comment you make.
> > > This is why people feel no sympathy for $100K taxpayer supported
> > > positions being axed or reduced when the budget gets tight. You
> > > contribute nothing to society as in this conversation, or any
> > > conversation. You twist the meaning of what people mean, play
> > > semantics, and think that it demonstrates your superior intellect and
> > > education when it in fact it only demonstrates your sophistication and
> > > capacity of being a worthless ass with no useful skills to society,
> > > whatsoever.
> > >
> > > Donovan Arnold
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 2/18/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty -
> > > FederalHealth Care . . .
> > > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> > > Cc: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>, "Vision 2020"
> > > <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > Date: Friday, February 18, 2011, 5:26 AM
> > >
> > > "Donovan" that is not what I'm doing. Which is why you won't quote
> > > your own words and show me the difference in "structure." What was the
> > > stricter of your argument, by the way?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Feb 17, 2011, at 10:40 PM, Donovan Arnold
> > > <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Roger,
> > >>
> > >> That isn't what he is doing. He offers an argument with a slightly
> > >> different structure to make it a much weaker argument that nobody
> > >> would really honestly make, it is called a strawman argument. He then
> > >> exposes the obvious flaws in his new made up weaker argument that he
> > >> tries to assign as mine.
> > >>
> > >> In this argument he shifts the argument about what the Constitution
> > >> specifically says to one about what it doesn't say.
> > >>
> > >> My argument is that the Constitution states specifically what the
> > >> Federal Governments powers are and everything else not mentioned is a
> > >> power that goes to the states. The Constitution doesn't specifically
> > >> mention the power to force residents of the states to purchase items.
> > >> So, it cannot do that. Only the states, or the people can force
> > >> people to purchase items.
> > >>
> > >> Joe's strawman argument confused the reader with thinking my argument
> > >> is making the claim that "ANYTHING" not specifically mentioned in the
> > >> Constitution should be considered unconstitutional. That is not my
> > >> argument.
> > >>
> > >> Joe is using his knowledge of logical argumentation to be more
> > >> misleading and dishonest, rather than engaging in an honest dialogue
> > >> about an important issue.
> > >>
> > >> Donovan Arnold
> > >>
> > >> --- On Thu, 2/17/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> > >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty -
> > >> FederalHealth Care . . .
> > >> To: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> > >> Cc: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Donovan Arnold"
> > >> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> > >> Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 9:39 PM
> > >>
> > >> It is a counterexample to Donovan's argument.
> > >>
> > >> In a counterexample, what you do is you offer an argument with the
> > >> same structure as the one you are critiquing but with an obviously
> > >> false conclusion.
> > >>
> > >> That shows that the premises of the first argument (Donovan's in this
> > >> case) don't support the conclusion.
> > >>
> > >> The illogic of my argument, which you admit, illustrates the the
> > >> illogic of Donovan's argument. Thanks for pointing that out!
> > >>
> > >> But don't believe me. I've only been teaching logic for 20 years!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Feb 17, 2011, at 12:12 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > You teach logic. Where is the logic in this statement?
> > >> > Roger
> > >> > -----Original message-----
> > >> > From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> > >> > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 07:56:59 -0800
> > >> > To: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty -
> > >> > FederalHealth Care . . .
> > >> >
> > >> >> I don't see anything in the constitution about the Internet.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Therefore, Donovan's last post is unconstitutional.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Feb 16, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Donovan Arnold
> > >> >> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> "The state government can compel you to buy automobile liability
> > >> >>> insurance if you chose to own and to operate a motor vehicle.
> > >> >>> "--Art Deco
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> This is a completely different situation on several levels;
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> First, there is a difference between a state requiring you to
> > >> >>> demonstrate while operating a heavy piece of equipment you have
> > >> >>> the means to pay for any damage to property, versus that of the
> > >> >>> federal government requiring you with buy a particular product.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I can escape the insurance requirement in Idaho by either moving
> > >> >>> out of state, choosing not to drive, or I can save up enough
> > >> >>> money to demonstrate I can pay for damages i may incur while
> > >> >>> operating a piece of heavy equipment on public highways and
> > >> >>> roadways.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Federal Mandated Health Insurance I cannot do the same thing. I
> > >> >>> cannot move out of state. I cannot disown or park my body (I am
> > >> >>> stuck with). And I can never demonstrate that I have enough money
> > >> >>> to pay for reasonable health problems, and that could be in the
> > >> >>> millions very easily.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> And of course there is the Constitutional issue that it reserves
> > >> >>> all rights not listed in it to the states. I don't see anything
> > >> >>> in the constitution giving the Federal Government the authority
> > >> >>> to require people to buy a particular product. Although I think
> > >> >>> the government can get around this issue in the same way as it
> > >> >>> did in 80s by changing the drinking age to 21, forcing the states
> > >> >>> to comply by withholding federal dollars.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I personally think it is a bad idea to have the federal
> > >> >>> government be able to make you buy something. Especially when its
> > >> >>> goal of providing health care to everyone will not succeed this
> > >> >>> way. The only way to get everyone to have access to health care
> > >> >>> is to tax people and provide it, just like every other service
> > >> >>> the government provides.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Donovan Arnold
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> --- On Wed, 2/16/11, Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> From: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>
> > >> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty -
> > >> >>> FederalHealth Care . . .
> > >> >>> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >> >>> Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 3:36 PM
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> The state government can compel you to buy automobile liability
> > >> >>> insurance if you chose to own and to operate a motor vehicle. The
> > >> >>> courts have ruled that this is a legitimate power of the
> > >> >>> government. It will be interesting to see how this issue as it
> > >> >>> relates to health insurance is argued in the courts.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> w.
> > >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> >>> From: Donovan Arnold
> > >> >>> To: Moscow Vision 2020 ; Tom Hansen
> > >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 3:07 PM
> > >> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty -
> > >> >>> FederalHealth Care . . .
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I have to agree that the government does not have the authority
> > >> >>> to compel you to participate in buying health Insurance or any
> > >> >>> product or service from a private company. Especially when it is
> > >> >>> such a rip-off and there is no regulation on what these insurance
> > >> >>> companies can collectively decide they want you to pay once you
> > >> >>> are required by to purchase it from them. They could charge
> > >> >>> $500-$1500 a month and you would have to pay it. If they wanted
> > >> >>> to tax you and provide access to health care that would be within
> > >> >>> their legal authority because that is what the government does.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> However, I don't agree with the wording of the bill that
> > >> >>> employers should be allowed to get away with not offering any
> > >> >>> health insurance without raising their minimum paid wages. You
> > >> >>> cannot afford health insurance on $7.25 an hour. Hell, you cannot
> > >> >>> even afford quality health insurance at $12.50 an hour working 50
> > >> >>> hours a week when the government is skimming 40 cents on every
> > >> >>> dollar you sweat blood and tears to make. Employers should have
> > >> >>> some basic responsibility for the welfare of their employers
> > >> >>> especially when many employers put their employees at risk for
> > >> >>> lots of health problems. Working conditions need to be beyond
> > >> >>> third world standards here in Idaho. Idahoan workers deserve at
> > >> >>> least this much. Too bad the Governor of Idaho and the majority
> > >> >>> of the current legislature doesn't agree.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Donovan Arnold
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> --- On Wed, 2/16/11, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> > >> >>> Subject: [Vision2020] House Bill 117 - State Sovereignty -
> > >> >>> Federal Health Care . . .
> > >> >>> To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >> >>> Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 11:43 AM
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Has passed the Idaho House by a vote of 49-20.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> http://moscowcares.com/idaho/2011/HB0117_020911.htm
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Tom Hansen
> > >> >>> Moscow, Idaho
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it
> > >> >>> to change
> > >> >>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> - Unknown
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> =======================================================
> > >> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> > >> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> >>> =======================================================
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> =======================================================
> > >> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> > >> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> >>> =======================================================
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> =======================================================
> > >> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> > >> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> >>> =======================================================
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> =======================================================
> > >> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> > >> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> >>> =======================================================
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > >> =======================================================
> > >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> http://www.fsr.net
> > >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> =======================================================
> > >>
> > >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20110218/423dfe5e/attachment.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> > End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 56, Issue 172
> > *******************************************
>
=======================================================
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mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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