[Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA

Mon Aug 1 18:59:50 PDT 2011

Seems to me the starting place should be the THREE wars we're fighting. That Obama would argue that we're not at war in Libya is loathesome. 

Let's start there, and then start shutting down the over-one-hundred military bases we have around the world, and looking at the rest of the military budget. 

Sunil

Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 16:45:45 -0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: jborden at datawedge.com; thansen at moscow.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA

While we're on the subject, as an aside, this basically comes down to the problem that always stymies cuts in government.  Cuts hurt.  They may be worth it in the long run, but unless they are truly fluff they will adversely affect someone.  Despite that fact, I think that valuable services will have to be reduced or eliminated if we are serious about getting this debt mess under control.  The problem is, elected officials don't want to vote for spending cuts that affect their constituencies and people don't want to see their favorite services cut back.  So, the question is: exactly how serious are we about cutting spending in government?

I'm rather hoping this issue will put the idea of cutting services back on the nation's consciousness.  If we as a populace realized that we have a lot of control over what actually happens, we might have a chance of reducing or eliminating some of the over-reaching programs that have sprung up over the past decade or so, such as the Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, fighting two wars, etc.  It might also have the added benefit of reducing the current insane debt level that is causing us so much trouble.  But we can't do it if we all fight every cut that has consequences, just because it has some drawbacks.  It can't be done without making some sacrifices.  We just need to do some cost/benefit analyses and make our choices wisely.  Avoiding the hard decisions is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Paul

From: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA

Sometimes, Mr. Hansen, you need to better explain your “heart of the matter” instead of leaving it to be summarized by sarcastic dismissals.   I didn’t tie you to the “liberal/Democratic” … but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see you’re further left than I am.  However, anyone left to simply “read beyond the short comment”  (and thus filling in the gaps with their own interpretations instead of your ACTUAL opinion) would probably just peg you as a card-carrying member of the progressive movement.

It’s NOT “only logical”.   By this are you saying that EVERY SINGLE FAA PROGRAM/EMPLOYEE IS TIED TO SAFETY?  How much of the FAA do we actually NEED vs. WANT?  Are we really so trusting of our government and its use of our monies that we simply default to an answer of, “GIVE THE FAA EVERY PENNY IT NEEDS, OR LIGHTS WILL START FLICKERING ON RUNWAYS”.  

How much of the FAA can be turned over to local states or local airports, instead of a federal agency?  How much of the FAA is a social agenda, as opposed to a NECESSARY service?

http://www.faa.gov/about/budget/

Take a peek at that and some of the budgets they’ve gone through… (though I would tend to look more towards the 2012 budget stuff rather than the older (2008 and prior) ones… as recent budgets have been bloated/blurred with the stimulus packages and federal grant money… )

“Reduction of Environment Impacts”… is THAT safety?  
“Improved Public Transit Experience”…. is THAT safety?
“Improved Networks to accommodate Pedestrians and Bicycles?”  (Really?).  Is THAT safety?
“Research Carbon Emissions, Improved Energy Efficiency, Reduce Dependence on Oil”… Is that safety?

** Note:  I’m skimming the proposed 2012 budget for the FAA… I haven’t read the details beyond this… I’m taking this stuff at face value... … but just at face value, I don’t see a lot of links between these items and having the runway lights flicker on final approach.

I should also be clear in my position here:  I’m a fiscal conservative and social liberal… I don’t lean so far right that I don’t see a role for the FAA at all… but that doesn’t mean that we should be so complacent about spending that it isn’t scrutinized at least a LITTLE more before we start blindly start tossing around the notion that “cutting spending directly ties to a decrease in safety”.

(As a side note, Reagan fired something like 10,000 Air Traffic Controllers in 1981… that would just about represent the most EXTREME tie to safety I can think of, and I don’t remember reading about any airplanes falling out of the sky as a result… )

Jay

From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:49 AM
To: Jay Borden
Cc: Mike Deleve; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA

Sometimes, Mr. Borden, you've got to read beyond a short comment to get to the heart of the matter.

In my opinion, barring any evidence to the contrary, laying off 4,000 FAA employees, coupled with a drastic FAA budget cut, WILL adversely impact safety.  It's only logical.

Simply because a liberal/Democrat says something, DOES NOT mean that I am in lockstep agreement with him/her.

OK?

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the Realist adjusts his sails."

- Unknown

On Aug 1, 2011, at 11:39, "Jay Borden" <jborden at datawedge.com> wrote:

Ok… I get it… I’m a fiscal conservative and therefore my legit questions will  be automatically met with snippy and “hand-waving” answers from the left.

But the article that was POSTED FOR ME TO READ said that the “shutdown will not affect airline safety”… Yet in response to my question, folks are jumping on issues of SAFETY.

Either the folks who snipped back at my LEGITIMATE question didn’t read the article that was posted up/shared, or they believe that it’s all lies… 

In either case, I’ll take the article at face value and assume that the folks that are furloughed are not part of a “safety” equation (however that equal sign pencils out).

How much do we ACTUALLY NEED some of this stuff?  As a nation, we’ve taken such BROAD strokes to government and spending, we don’t actually look to see how the pennies add up to dollars.  When my wife and I look at our home budget, we don’t just look at the BROAD spending we do in our home, we look at the NITTY GRITTY pennies… (well, we obviously can’t cut FOOD out of our budget, but maybe we can spend less name-brand cereal and get just the Malto-Meal stuff?)

It’s a larger question…. (and keep in mind that I had my VFR rating, and was on the verge of my IFR before I let it all lapse just after 9/11)…  how much of this needs to be kept?  

Jay

From: Mike Deleve [mailto:coolerfixer at roadrunner.com] 
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:37 PM
To: Jay Borden
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA

Well Jay-

These are the people that do those unimportant things like accident investigation, aircraft safety inspections and a really dumb one. Licensing of pilots. My application will be delayed even further now. If your privileges expire in the time frame that the FAA has no authority, you can no longer fly. Period. The airlines may be hit hard with expiring commercial pilot licenses. This is no small thing. You can also bet a certain moron senator from Oklahoma is involved in this because of his reckless activity, just to extract some payback.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Jay Borden 

To: Tom Hansen ; Moscow Vision 2020 

Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 5:53 PM

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA

According to the article, “the shutdown will not affect airline safety”…  then what exactly are these 4000 people that are on the payroll doing?  

And… do we need them?  

(Generally, I’m in favor of many of these government/agency shutdowns… you’ll never really know how much government you can live without until you wake up and never even realize it was missing)

Jay

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hansen
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 8:53 AM
To: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: [Vision2020] Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA

Jus' another attempt by our friendly, people-oriented Tea . . . er, uh . . . I mean Republican (it's gettin harder to tell them apart without DNA) Party to shut down 'nother one of them commie pinko socialist unions.

Courtesy of The Boston Globe at:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2011/07/23/impasses_lead_to_shutdown_of_faa/?page=full

------------------------------

Impasses lead to shutdown of FAA
WASHINGTON - Efforts to avert a shutdown of the Federal Aviation Administration failed yesterday amid a disagreement over a $16.5 million cut in subsidies to 13 rural communities, ensuring that at midnight nearly 4,000 people will be temporarily out of work and federal airline ticket taxes will be suspended.
Lawmakers were unable to resolve a partisan dispute over an extension of the agency’s operating authority.
The subsidy cut was included by Republicans in a House bill extending operating authority for the FAA, which has a $16 billion budget. Senate Democrats refused to accept the House bill with the cuts, and Republican senators refused to accept a Democratic bill without it. Lawmakers then adjourned for the weekend.

But underlying the dispute on rural air service subsidies was a standoff between the GOP-controlled House and the Democratic-controlled Senate over a provision in long-term funding legislation for the FAA that would make it more difficult for airline and railroad workers to unionize.

Obama administration officials have said the shutdown will not affect air safety. Air traffic controllers will remain on the job. But airlines will lose the authority to collect about $200 million a week in ticket taxes that go into a trust fund that pays for FAA programs.

FAA employees whose jobs are paid for with trust fund money will be furloughed, including nearly 1,000 workers at the agency’s headquarters in Washington, 647 workers at FAA’s technology and research center in Atlantic City, and 124 workers at the agency’s training center in Oklahoma City.

“These are real people with families who do not deserve to be put out of work during these tough economic times,’’ FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt said in a statement.

Airline passengers could see a big savings on their airfares, but the situation is complicated. Federal taxes on a $300 round-trip airfare are about $61, but about half of that is airport and security fees that will continue to be collected, according to the Air Transport Association.

Airlines, alerted earlier this week that FAA authority could expire, have been making adjustments to their computer systems and websites so that at midnight, taxes will no longer be added to airfares, the association said.

One airline, US Airways, was already raising its fares. Other airlines may try to reap a windfall profit from the tax holiday.

Passengers who bought their tickets before the shutdown but who travel during the shutdown may wind up due a refund, Treasury Department spokeswoman Sandra Salstrom said. That’s because it’s not clear whether the government can keep taxes for travel that takes place during a period when the government doesn’t have authority to collect taxes, she said.

Likewise, it’s not clear if passengers who buy tickets after midnight with no taxes included will wind up owing taxes if their travel takes place after FAA’s operating authority is restored, she said.

Long-term funding authority for the FAA expired in 2007. Unable to agree on new long-term funding legislation for the agency, Congress has kept the FAA operating through a series of 20 short-term extension bills. The extensions had been routine until this week.

The Senate passed a long-term bill in February; and the House a different version in April. Lawmakers have resolved most of the differences between the bills, but no progress has been made on a half dozen or more controversial issues.

Republicans said Senate majority leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, is insisting that a labor provision in the House bill sought by the airline industry must be dropped before negotiations can go forward.

The labor provision would overturn a National Mediation Board rule approved last year that allows airline and railroad employees to form a union by a simple majority of those voting. Under the old rule, workers who didn’t vote were treated as “no’’ votes. The Republicans complain that the new rule reverses 75 years of precedent to favor labor unions. Democrats and union officials say the change puts airline and railroad elections under the same democratic rules required for unionizing all other companies.

The White House warned in March that President Obama might veto the bill if the labor provision is retained.

Just before he blocked the Democrats’ extension bill, Senator Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, said he shared House Republicans’ frustration “that favors to organized labor have overshadowed the prospects for long-term FAA’’ funding.

Another unresolved issue involves about $200 million in air services subsidies to rural communities. The program was created when airlines were deregulated in 1978 to ensure continued air service on less profitable routes to isolated communities. The House long-term FAA bill would eliminate the program except for airports in Alaska.

------------------------------

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the Realist adjusts his sails."

- Unknown

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