[Vision2020] Joe and Arrogance

[Joe Campbell]

Roger, you are an idiot! ;-)

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:19 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

>
> -----Original message-----
> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:58:11 -0700
> To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joe and Arrogance
>
> > Did I say you were critical of Muslims and Mormons? No. What is true is
> that
> > you supported a candidate who was openly critical of Mormons -- and then
> > refused to talk about it! You are distorting my points and refusing to
> talk
> > intelligently about the important issues underlying the post.
>
> > You said- I did not mind muslims and Mormons being offended.  Me- I did
> not support a candidate who was  openly critical of Mormons.
>
> > I don't care if other Mormons worked for Bouma. I'm sure there were Jews
> who
> > worked for Hitler, too. What relevance is that? It's like telling me you
> > have black friends, so you can't be a bigot.
>
> > me- I won't argue with you here.
>
> > Look, some of the comments were tongue in cheek; some were serious. It
> > doesn't matter with you because you ignore serious questions anyway. I'm
> at
> > a loss as to how to deal with you. You dismiss critical comments from
> anyone
> > who disagrees with you.
>
>  Me- this statement applies more to you than to me.
> >
> > And you missed the substantive points noted below. Again, I'm sure you
> won't
> > answer these questions but I'll ask AGAIN.
> >
> > What would be wrong with me starting a church called Roger is an Idiot?
> If I
> > did and said that you were an idiot was the central belief of that
> religion,
> > would that make it right? If you say "Yes," then maybe I'll start the
> church
> > and start spreading the word that you're an idiot. If you say "No," what
> on
> > earth gives Bouma the right to regard Mormons as blasphemous; how is that
> > attitude -- publicly and openly expressed by his pastor -- appropriate
> and
> > not something that should be openly condemned? Maybe Bouma doesn't
> believe
> > that. But then why didn't he answer questions from voters last election
> on
> > this matter and make that clear? I'll tell you, if my pastor made such
> > bigoted and idiotic comments, I'd leave in a heartbeat. Why didn't Bouma
> > leave?
>
> > Me- You can stare any church that you want.
>
> > What gives Christ Church the right to be openly offensive and critical of
> > gays, Muslims, secularists, etc.? Why do stand up and defend Bouma
> against
> > my insults of him but not defend Mormons, gays, Muslims, secularists,
> etc.
> > against insults from the local right wing pastors?
> >
> > What is it about something being a religious conviction that makes
> > offensive, bigoted behavior appropriate? Please explain that to me.
>
> > Me-You can hold any belief that you want and have the freedom to preach
> it as long as you do not take overt action against anyone. You are also free
> to criticize any such beliefs. Bigoted is in the eye of the beholder.
>
> > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 11:58 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Almost everything you say here is off base. I do not recall ever being
> > > critical of Muslims or Mormons. That is something that you assumed. You
> seem
> > > to assume that everyone who is on the right economically is guilty of
> all
> > > kinds of other sins. You should take each issue on its own merits.
> > > I know a lot of Mormons who actively worked for Gresham.
> > > If you do not want the term "idiot" applied to you, you should be more
> > > careful in throwing out unsubstantiated comments.
> > > You said that you use the term "idiot" to apply to those that say
> stupid
> > > things. Almost everything that you said here applies
> > > Roger
> > > -----Original message-----
> > > From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> > > Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 21:53:59 -0700
> > > To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joe and Arrogance
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Looks like I really got under your skin.
> > > >
> > > > Nope!
> > > >
> > > > > The point is I think that you use the term "idiot" too liberally. I
> am
> > > not a Gingrich fan, but I would wager that his IQ is higher than yours.
> > > >
> > > > You must be joking! "Idiot" is my affectionate term for people who
> say
> > > stupid things. I use other terms when trying to insult people for real.
> > > >
> > > > > Who is the idiot? You do not know Gresham. He is not a bigot. He
> worked
> > > closely with Ike Young, a mormon.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry. I guess Young is the real idiot.
> > > >
> > > > > His pastor, not him made the comments you dislike. When It comes to
> > > religion, I do not criticize anyone's belief.
> > > >
> > > > You are an idiot. That is my religion, so stop criticizing me!
> > > >
> > > > > There are dogma in almost all religions  that I would disagree with
> and
> > > some that I support. I look at the individual not their religion.
> > > >
> > > > Except Muslims and Mormons, who you don't seem to mind being
> offended.
> > > >
> > > > > Everyone is entitled to there religious beliefs as long as they do
> not
> > > interfere with the rights of others. A lot of people think Mormons are
> > > blasphemous and are not Christians because of there belief (as I
> understand
> > > it) that anyone can become a god.
> > > >
> > > > But it's not offensive? It doesn't conflict with the right to free
> > > EXERCISE of religion?
> > > >
> > > > Is the point that, if you say something that is a "religious" belief,
> you
> > > can say whatever stupid thing you wish, offend as many other religions
> and
> > > minorities you want?
> > > >
> > > > Do you think that religion is some kind of "get out of civil decency"
> > > card?
> > > >
> > > > Well then I'm Pastor of the Church of Roger is an Idiot! How does
> that
> > > work for you?
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry but this is a bad view, Roger. Someone who believes this
> view
> > > has no basis for criticizing anyone for saying anything.
> > > >
> > > > > I think that they are Christians because they believe in Jesus and
> > > thier church is set up on the basis of Christ's 12 apostles. Most
> Mormons
> > > that I know are great people and I admire their strong family
> > > > > values.
> > > >
> > > > Ask your Mormon friends if they think Bouma is a bigot. Ask them if
> his
> > > religious "freedom" extends to the limitation of their free exercise.
> > > >
> > > > > I did not call you a communist. You read that into my comments. As
> to
> > > who resorts to name calling, look in the mirror.
> > > >
> > > > That's right. I think you used the term "socialist." Imagine my
> > > embarrassment!
> > > >
> > > > > Roger
> > > > > -----Original message-----
> > > > > From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> > > > > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:54:32 -0700
> > > > > To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joe and Arrogance
> > > > >
> > > > >> Sorry -- last clarification.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I didn't call ALL Republicans -- whom I disagree with -- "idiots."
> In
> > > fact,
> > > > >> I explicitly said that I don't think all Republicans are idiots
> and
> > > > >> mentioned a few by name that I didn't think were idiots.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I asked why Republicans VOTE for idiots. The idiots are folks like
> > > Bush,
> > > > >> Palin, and Gingrich. I called Gingrich an "idiot" because of his
> > > bigoted
> > > > >> comments -- comments which you conveniently didn't include in this
> > > criticism
> > > > >> -- not because he was a Republican. I asked a question: Why do so
> many
> > > > >> Republicans vote for idiots -- folks who are either dumb as posts
> or
> > > obvious
> > > > >> and clear bigots?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'm asking you, too, Roger. Why did you openly support Gresham
> Bouma
> > > in the
> > > > >> last election, someone who is openly antagonistic toward Mormons?
> Why
> > > > >> support Young, someone who was openly antagonistic toward folks on
> the
> > > left?
> > > > >> Do you think it is OK to call Mormons "blasphemous"? Do you think
> that
> > > that
> > > > >> kind of behavior is indicative of what our founding fathers meant
> by
> > > the
> > > > >> right to the free exercise of religion? Do you think leaders
> should
> > > only
> > > > >> cater to members of your own political party? That they can ignore
> the
> > > folks
> > > > >> that they don't vote for them?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> But the fact is that you won't answer these questions. What you'll
> do
> > > is
> > > > >> call me a "communist" and try to divert attention from the growing
> > > racism of
> > > > >> your political party. And what I'll continue to do is point out
> the
> > > racism,
> > > > >> even if it means putting up with your mean-spirited name calling.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:52 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> It is amazing to me that some people on the left like joe, call
> > > everyone
> > > > >>> they disagree with idiots. I think it was Stalin that called the
> > > American
> > > > >>> left useful idiots. A friend of my aunt's on finding out I was a
> > > friend of
> > > > >>> Steve Symms said, "He can't be very bright can he". Some on the
> right
> > > think
> > > > >>> the same way. I do not know why people cannot disagree on the
> issues
> > > with
> > > > >>> out disparaging one another's intelligence.
> > > > >>> Roger
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> =======================================================
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> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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