[Vision2020] Crabtree and the NRA

Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Sun Oct 31 22:36:57 PDT 2010


Also, I didn't look it up but rhetoric comes in two forms: logic or rational persuasion; and non-rational persuasion. Usually folks use and understand the term in the latter sense but you are right to point out that historically (dating back at least to Aristotle) it has a wider meaning. Offering reasons in an effort to persuade, as opposed to fallacies (two wrongs make a right) and appeals to emotion (like pity and fear), is a good thing. Usually rational rhetoric is only possible with dialogue. When people avoid dialogue and use non-rational rhetoric the democratic process is harmed, IMO. Everyone looses except those who have already made up their minds and are thus are immune to further reasoning.



On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:55 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:

> Visionaries:
>  
> Shirley Ringo has promptly and graciously responded to my query and for that I thank her. It's interesting to me that she imagines that a small business person has the  time to attend forums that are scheduled in the middle of work days or spends time listening to low wattage progressive propaganda radio. She elected to participate on the vision 20/20 forum and that is where I elected to make my inquirey. The assertion that my comments make her uncomfortable is unfortunate but, I believe that any remarks I have made pale in comparison to those made by her supporters regarding Ike Young and Gresham Bouma. I'm not entirely sure what I might have posted that she would characterize as "vitriolic." Granted my acerbic remarks concerning a prompt response to my question were intemperate and unfounded and for that I apologize. In my meager defense, the blank e-mail posted after my question led me to believe no further response was forthcoming.  Beyond that any other remarks I made were simply facts and I stand behind them.
>  
> NRA score of F = Fact, the definition of an F grade was theirs not mine. The explanation for not supporting the recently enacted legislation related to weapons manufactured in Idaho rings hollow. Nothing in that law had to do with creating arms that were any less safe than any others and everything to do with local control of firearms regulation. The willingness to support  Nancy Chaney and her odious gun ban scheme doesn't do much to support the weak "some of my best friends are NRA" posturing.
>  
> In favor of raising taxes = Fact
>  
> Enthusiastic mouth piece for teaches unions = Fact
>  
> Thrall of unions in general = Fact
>  
> Did I miss anything?
>  
> As a more sycophantic voice on the vision put it "If you can't swim, stay out of the pool." 
>  
> On a final note, the last I checked the word was defined as "rhetoric n. The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively." Not a disparagement as much as an aspiration.
>  
> g
> 
> From: ringoshirl
> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 8:22 AM
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Crabtree and the NRA
> 
> Visionaries:
>  
> Gary Crabtree has requested a discussion from me concerning my low rating from the National Rifle Association.  It’s interesting to me that Mr. Crabtree did not attend any of the forums, nor take the time to submit a question during the KRFP interview.  I am also uncomfortable with his vitriolic comments towards people with whom he disagrees politically.  After asking me to respond, he brands my answer “rhetoric” in advance.
> However, he has raised an issue about which some of you may be curious, so I will give a candid response. 
> 
> I have many friends who are sportsmen, belong to the NRA, and enjoy their publications.  I think the organization provides a service that people appreciate.  I also think that, at times, their political action wing has been over the top. 
> 
> This is a powerful lobbying group in the Idaho Legislature.  Many legislators just produce the votes the NRA requests because of its powerful influence.  During my service in the Legislature, I have not always voted according to their wishes.  I have listened to constituents who have contacted me.  I have contacted attorneys to determine whether the legislation was deemed necessary by  them.  After weighing all information, I vote according to what seems most responsible, and I never take this lightly.
> 
> Gun safety is very important to me.  In the most recent session, the majority passed legislation stipulating that firearms manufactured exclusively in Idaho would be exempt from federal regulations.  I think that is dangerous and irresponsible.  Our Attorney General said it was likely unconstitutional.  My vote was one of the few against that legislation.
> 
> During my five terms in the legislature, I have not introduced legislation that would threaten anybody’s second amendment rights.  I have none planned.  Nobody enjoys a low rating from a political action group, and we should always listen to all sides of an issue before voting.  But our legislative decision-making should not be driven by a desire for high ratings.
> 
> Shirley Ringo
> 
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