[Vision2020] HJR 4 and 5

[Donovan Arnold]

A super majority is the only thing that keeps 51% of the people from stealing from the other 49%. It is what protects individual rights of minorities in this country, and keeps Constitutions from changing back and forth every other year. 
 
Donovan J. Arnold

--- On Mon, 10/25/10, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:


From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] HJR 4 and 5
To: "Reggie Holmquist" <reggieholmquist at u.boisestate.edu>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 12:56 PM


Exactly.

Rule by majority is the basis for our representative republic.

Do away with the super majority!

The two-thirds vote is the primary reason why crucial issues are
filibustered.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho




On Mon, October 25, 2010 12:46 pm, Reggie Holmquist wrote:
> I, too, am having trouble seeing why a 2/3 vote is democracy, but a
> majority
> vote somehow isn't.  And since when is over 50% of the electorate a
> "handful
> of people?"
>
> -Reggie
>
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That was one of my thoughts upon reading D's comments this morning.  My
>> other thought was that D either doesn't like or doesn't understand that
>> we
>> live in a representative democracy.  We elect representatives to vote on
>> things for us.  D seems to advocate either:
>> 1.  A pure democracy.
>> 2.  More use of ballot initiatives (ala Tim Eyman in WA, or California).
>>
>> I like our system of representative democracy, and prefer not to
>> circumvent
>> it with countless ballot initiatives.  California would seem to be a
>> good
>> warning as to the dangers of too many initiatives.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>>>   And since when is a required 2/3 yes vote democratic?  Those of us
>>> who
>>> taught in antiquated school buildings for 30 plus years can certainly
>>> speak
>>> to that....as could you who went there.
>>>
>>> Sue
>>>
>>>  *From:* Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 25, 2010 11:58 AM
>>> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com ; ringoshirl <ringoshirl at moscow.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] HJR 4 and 5
>>>
>>>    "It's very limiting for these entities to need a 2/3 favorable vote
>>> every time they need to make these purchases that they need for their
>>> operations."-S. Ringo
>>>
>>> Democracy is so inconvenient isn't it?
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it is good practice to have a 2/3 vote before incurring any
>>> debt
>>> and bad practice to let a handful of people rack up a debt for future
>>> generations and others to absorb. I think if something truly is needed
>>> and
>>> debt needs to be incurred reasonable people will support it and it will
>>> pass. We cannot just let hospitals go bankrupt and shut down let other
>>> businesses, we need them.
>>>
>>> Again, people should not keep handing over their money and rights to an
>>> increasingly smaller number of people that may have other interests
>>> than
>>> your own in mind.
>>>
>>> Donovan J Arnold
>>>
>>> --- On *Mon, 10/25/10, ringoshirl <ringoshirl at moscow.com>* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: ringoshirl <ringoshirl at moscow.com>
>>> Subject: [Vision2020] HJR 4 and 5
>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 5:32 AM
>>>
>>>  Visionaries:
>>>
>>> I support both of these.  It's very limiting for these entities to need
>>> a
>>> 2/3 favorable vote every time they need to make these purchases that
>>> they
>>> need for their operations. This does not affect Gritman.
>>>
>>> Shirley
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> H.J.R. 4
>>> *
>>>
>>> “Shall Section 3C, Article VIII, of the Constitution of the State of
>>> Idaho
>>> be amended to authorize
>>>
>>> public hospitals, ancillary to their operations and in furtherance of
>>> health care needs in their service
>>>
>>> areas, to incur indebtedness or liability to purchase, contract, lease
>>> or
>>> construct or otherwise acquire
>>>
>>> facilities, equipment, technology and real property for health care
>>> operations, provided that no ad
>>>
>>> valorem tax revenues shall be used for such activities?”
>>>
>>> Proposed Amendment to the Constitution of the State of Idaho: Section
>>> 3C,
>>> Article VIII
>>> *
>>>
>>> Legislative Council’s Statement of Meaning, Purpose and Result to be
>>> Accomplished of Proposed
>>>
>>> Amendment:
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> This proposed amendment will allow public hospitals to acquire
>>> facilities,
>>> equipment, technology and
>>>
>>> real property through a variety of means that aid the public hospital
>>> operations, as long as the acquisitions
>>>
>>> are paid for solely from charges, rents or payments derived from the
>>> existing or financed facilities and
>>>
>>> are not funded by property taxes. Under current Idaho constitutional
>>> provisions, public hospitals, as
>>>
>>> subdivisions of the state of Idaho, have limited ability to incur debt
>>> without the approval of a two-thirds
>>>
>>> vote at an election held for that purpose. This proposed amendment will
>>> provide a limited alternative
>>>
>>> to that two-thirds vote requirement. The use of tax dollars to finance
>>> these kinds of investments is
>>>
>>> prohibited.
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> Statements FOR the Proposed Amendment
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> 1. The proposed amendment will allow Idaho’s public hospitals, which
>>> are
>>> primarily located in
>>>
>>> small towns and rural areas, to invest in new medical equipment,
>>> facilities and technology to
>>>
>>> better meet the health care needs of patients in their communities,
>>> strengthening Idaho’s entire
>>>
>>> health care system.
>>>
>>> 2. The proposed amendment will help give public hospitals the resources
>>> they need to attract the
>>>
>>> best medical personnel, spur the economy by creating jobs, and increase
>>> operational efficiency
>>>
>>> through long-term contracts.
>>>
>>> 3. The proposed amendment keeps in place the safeguards provided in the
>>> Idaho Constitution in
>>>
>>> two ways. First, no tax dollars can be used to finance these
>>> investments.
>>> Second, the amendment
>>>
>>> strictly forbids obligating taxpayers or any state, county or other
>>> governmental entity with these
>>>
>>> investments.
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> Statements AGAINST the Proposed Amendment
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> 1. The existing Idaho constitutional requirement mandating a two-thirds
>>> assent of the voters before
>>>
>>> a public hospital can enter into long-term debt is an important
>>> safeguard
>>> for all Idaho citizens.
>>>
>>> 2. Adoption of the proposed amendment will limit the right of voters to
>>> approve certain debt
>>>
>>> incurred by the public hospitals.
>>>
>>> 3. Changes to the Constitution should be made only for major issues of
>>> interest to the state or in the
>>>
>>> event of a constitutional crisis.
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> H.J.R. 5
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> “Shall Article VIII, of the Constitution of the State of Idaho be
>>> amended
>>> by the addition of a new
>>>
>>> Section 3E, to provide for the issuance of revenue and special facility
>>> bonds by political subdivisions
>>>
>>> of the state and regional airport authorities as defined by law, if
>>> operating an airport to acquire,
>>>
>>> construct, install, and equip land, facilities, buildings, projects or
>>> other property, which are hereby
>>>
>>> deemed to be for a public purpose, to be financed for, or to be leased,
>>> sold or otherwise disposed of
>>>
>>> to persons, associations or corporations, or to be held by the
>>> subdivision
>>> or regional airport authority,
>>>
>>> and may in the manner prescribed by law issue revenue and special
>>> facility
>>> bonds to finance the costs
>>>
>>> thereof; provided that any such bonds shall be payable solely from
>>> fees,
>>> charges, rents, payments,
>>>
>>> grants, or any other revenues derived from the airport or any of its
>>> facilities, structures, systems, or
>>>
>>> projects, or from any land, facilities, buildings, projects or other
>>> property financed by such bonds,
>>>
>>> and shall not be secured by the full faith and credit or the taxing
>>> power
>>> of the subdivision or regional
>>>
>>> airport authority?”
>>>
>>> Proposed Amendment to the Constitution of the State of Idaho: New
>>> Section
>>> 3E, Article VIII
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> Legislative Council’s Statement of Meaning, Purpose and Result to be
>>> Accomplished of Proposed
>>>
>>> Amendment:
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> Currently, local governmental entities that operate airports and
>>> regional
>>> airport authorities cannot
>>>
>>> incur indebtedness without the approval of a two-thirds vote at an
>>> election held for that purpose. This
>>>
>>> proposed amendment will allow local governmental entities that operate
>>> airports and regional airport
>>>
>>> authorities to issue revenue and special facility bonds to acquire,
>>> construct, install and equip land,
>>>
>>> facilities, buildings, projects or other property. Voter approval will
>>> not
>>> be required to incur such
>>>
>>> indebtedness, as long as the bonds are paid for by fees, charges,
>>> rents,
>>> payments, grants or other
>>>
>>> revenues derived from the airport or its facilities. The use of tax
>>> dollars to repay such bonds is
>>>
>>> prohibited.
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> Statements FOR the Proposed Amendment
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> 1. Public airports should have the ready ability to construct needed
>>> facilities, such as terminals,
>>>
>>> runways, parking structures and hangars, which provide travelers with
>>> better services and
>>>
>>> accommodations and attract industries to Idaho as long as the users pay
>>> for these facilities.
>>>
>>> 2. Political subdivisions and regional airport authorities need the
>>> ability to efficiently address
>>>
>>> operational needs as they arise. Adoption of this amendment will
>>> provide
>>> this ability without the
>>>
>>> use of tax dollars to repay any debt or liability incurred.
>>>
>>> 3. The inability of political subdivisions and regional airport
>>> authorities to incur indebtedness and
>>>
>>> liability without voter approval has been a contributing factor in
>>> driving
>>> regional aviation-related
>>>
>>> industries to conduct business in neighboring states. If the proposed
>>> amendment is not adopted,
>>>
>>> Idaho could continue to lose similar economic development
>>> opportunities.
>>>
>>> 4. Public airports are a vital part of economic development and
>>> commerce
>>> in the state of Idaho. In
>>>
>>> 2009, aviation contributed an estimated $2.1 billion to Idaho’s
>>> economy.
>>> Properties and facilities
>>>
>>> funded by special facility bonds will attract and expand industries,
>>> such
>>> as maintenance, manu
>>>
>>> facturing
>>>
>>> and cargo operations, which will create new jobs and foster economic
>>> development in
>>>
>>> Idaho. Modern and efficient airports are essential to Idaho’s
>>> prosperity.
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> Statements AGAINST the Proposed Amendment (H.J.R. 5 Continued)
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> 1. The existing Idaho constitutional requirement mandating a two-thirds
>>> assent of the voters before
>>>
>>> a political subdivision or regional airport authority can incur debt is
>>> an
>>> important safeguard for
>>>
>>> all Idaho citizens.
>>>
>>> 2. Adoption of the proposed amendment will allow political subdivisions
>>> and regional airport
>>>
>>> authorities to acquire, construct, install and equip land, facilities,
>>> buildings and projects that are
>>>
>>> not specifically limited to airport operations.
>>>
>>> 3. Buildings and land owned by the government are not taxed and
>>> therefore
>>> provide no revenues to
>>>
>>> schools, cities, counties or other levying authorities. Adoption of the
>>> proposed amendment could
>>>
>>> result in an increase in property exempt from taxation.
>>>
>>> 4. Changes to the Constitution should be made only for major issues of
>>> interest to the entire state
>>>
>>> or in the event of a constitutional crisis.
>>>
>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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>
>
>
> --
> There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what
> the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be
> replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another
> theory which states that this has already happened.
>
> Douglas Adams
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"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
and the Realist adjusts his sails."

- Unknown


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