[Vision2020] Curiosity Question

Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Sun Nov 28 23:27:30 PST 2010


Maybe "condemn" was too harsh. 

The point is that a lot of moderates and conservatives come on the V to tell me or others that Christ Church criticism is out of place. But I've never seen a public criticism by any of them of antics like the recent NSA crap. Nor a comment by any of them about Bouma's offensive pastor's sermon, though I do recall several moderates and conservatives criticizing progressives for asking what stuck me as reasonable questions about Bouma's own views on the subject. (It seems like the only conservative who publically criticized Bouma was the one who lost to him in the primary.)

In the last election on Young's Facebook page were daily comments from his father about Democrats being communists. I will tell you that I've had more members of my family fighting for our freedoms in US wars than Young has had, I'm pretty sure. But I don't remember a lot of moderates or conservatives criticizing him for this over the top rhetoric.

So excuse me if I don't take kindly to moderates or conservatives telling me to tone down my rhetoric, my criticism of Christ Church, without even mentioning the inappropriate nature of the NSA website that got me bent out of shape in the first place.

Is my point clear now?

On Nov 28, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Makes sense.  But you are wrong about my level of religious tolerance, and I haven't condemned anyone.  You keep saying I have, without proof, but that doesn't make it so.
> 
> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry about the incomplete sentences but i'm sending this from my iPhone.
> 
> Here's what I know: a local political/religious group made a public, threatening comment and a few of the folks who were offended by it reacted in predictable ways. You had an opportunity to condemn the former group for their insulting comments, which you must know are more likely to stir the tension between us than heal them. Instead you chose to condemn the folks who were offended in the first place. That strikes me a little like blaming the victim. Not that I feel like a victim. I'm just making an analogy. 
> 
> Sorry but I just get a little upset when I see sensible moderates kissing the asses of the radical fringe but not having the decency to keep quiet when the left sound off about the offense. And say what you want but if it were a Muslim college making a similar threatening comment about a Christian church, you'd be on our side. And they would have been burned to the ground.
> 
> Does this make sense?
> 
> 
> On Nov 28, 2010, at 4:42 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm happy for you that the fact that at least two radical rightwing
>> churches, ones who continually disrespect and even threaten people who
>> have alternative world views, exist in Moscow; that one of them ran a
>> candidate for political office, hoping to extend their narrow, bigoted
>> views. 
>> 
>> I'm going to assume that the above incomplete sentence was intended to say something along the lines that the radical rightwing churches don't bother me.  Again, you are reading more into my note than I actually said.  You have no idea what I think of them.  All you know is that I didn't think we needed to bring Christ Church into Tom's church list question.  That comment was followed by Tom himself saying something very similar in a follow-up note.  I am perfectly happy that you are interested in these two churches.  Just because something is not a topic I pursue vociferously does not mean others shouldn't.  Unfortunately, this listserv seems like a one note instrument when almost everything is linked to that same topic.
>> 
>> As to any new remarks made by NSA-how are they breaking news?  Are they breaking with previous pronouncements?  You (and others) find their beliefs and stances repugnant.  Nothing new there.  If the dog has always smelled, why keep talking about it if that is all the action you plan to take?
>> 
>> I do find it interesting how you feel free to make accusations about me but are unwilling/able to back them up when pressed (Too summarize for our viewership you have made four unproven/untrue accusations about me:  1.  I am unconcerned about these local churches.  2. I have criticized people that are.  3.  I am only concerned about threatening remarks made about Christians.  4.  I am a Christian-I'll concede this point, I'm a Protestant.).  That's a lot of unwarranted assumptions you make about me.  We all know what happens when you ass-u-me.  Doesn't lead credence to your other discussion points.  I hope for better use of argumentation and logic from a philosopher with such an awesome name.
>> 
>> I've told you how I stand up for what I'm concerned about.  I volunteer and/or work for agencies that make a difference.  Do you do anything other than write and talk?  Nott meant as a jab.  I really am curious, and suspect others on v2020 are too.  I know it means more to me when someone combines their talk with action.  As an aside, I am currently reading a bio of Irish hunger striker Bobby Sands.  What a guy!  He REALLY walked the talk.
> 
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