[Vision2020] Imagine That, Butch - Politics Is a Rough 'Sport'
lfalen
lfalen at turbonet.com
Tue Mar 9 12:37:38 PST 2010
I will make a few comments after some of the paragraphs
-----Original message-----
From: "Art Deco" deco at moscow.com
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:29:36 -0800
To: "Vision 2020" vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Imagine That, Butch - Politics Is a Rough 'Sport'
> Here is a slightly different view than yours Roger, albeit one from a person not nearly as well-known or as rational as you.
>
>
> TEA PARTIERS
> A cognitive disconnect
> By LEONARD PITTS JR.
> lpitts at MiamiHerald.com
> `At some point, you have to use the word `crazy.' ''
>
> It will not surprise you to hear that the speaker is referring to extremists within the tea party movement. What might surprise you is that the speaker is Erick Erickson, editor-in-chief of RedState, a prominent conservative blog.
>
> Erickson was recently quoted on Politico in a report about how he and other conservatives are attempting to distance their ideology and the Republican Party from the paranoid theorizing and loud, incoherent screaming that have recently passed for discourse on the political right. And of course, the darkly comic thing about it is that, less than a year ago, some conservatives were exulting over the tea parties, believing they brought needed energy to a movement demoralized by its 2008 shellacking at the polls. ``The Republican comeback has begun,'' declared GOP chief Michael Steele.
>
> What a difference a year makes. Or not.
>
> Some of us after all, have argued all along that the tea parties were about as ``conservative'' -- insofar as that term has traditionally been understood -- as ladies night in a Castro Street bar. Indeed, some of us made the same point about George W. Bush, the putatively conservative president who nevertheless presided over an expansion of the federal government and of a federal entitlement program (Medicare), a costly war of choice in Iraq founded on a shifting rationale, and financial mismanagement that turned surplus into deficit seemingly overnight.
> Bush was not a conservative. Try Reagan and Goldwater- Roger
> For at least the last decade, then, conservatism has not seemed particularly conservative -- a disconnect many of the ideology's adherents managed to ignore so long as it was useful to do so, i.e., so long as it played well at the ballot box. ``Just win, baby'' was their mantra; intellectual honesty, their casualty; and as a result, their ideology slid into -- here's that word again -- incoherence, taking American political discourse with it.
> The Republicans did lose their way, That is why a lot of people in the Tea Party movement don't like Republicans any better than Democrats. As far as doing anything it takes to win that is what the Democrats are doing now with Health Care.- Roger
> But in the tea party movement, some conservatives finally meet a cognitive disconnect they simply cannot bridge.
>
> A recent New York Times profile found the tea party movement to be amorphous and largely without an organizing principle other than its anger toward government and fear of a supposedly imminent dictatorship. Beyond that, tea partiers are an unwieldy amalgam of tax haters, global warming holdouts, illegal immigration protesters, secessionists, gun rights advocates, white supremacists, militia types and conspiracy theorists, all banging their gongs at the same time.
> This is mostly true with the exeption of white supremacists.-Roger
> Like the liberal noisemakers who follow the World Trade Organization around, their lack of message discipline renders them -- that word, yet again -- incoherent. Like them, they have yet to figure out that to protest everything is to protest nothing.
They are not protesting everything. Their main focus is smaller government, free markets, the rule of law and the constitution I don't see anything too radical with that.-Roger
>
> Make no mistake: Every movement or marginalized people has its fringe extremists who threaten to define the whole. Thus, moderate American Muslims are periodically required to rebuke Islamic terrorists, environmentalists are obligated to rebuff eco-terrorists and moderate African Americans are expected to reprove Louis Farrakhan.
> This is true. That is why William F. Buckly repudiated the Burcher and Ayn Rand. Both Beck and Limbaugh support the Tea Party but have disparaged the Birther element.-Roger
> But conservatives, outside of a few integrity-driven souls over the years, have not rushed to repudiate the crazies among them, even as the crazies have grown crazier and threatened to engulf the whole.
> See my last statement above- roger
> So it is welcome, albeit belated, news to hear Ned Ryun of American Majority telling Politico the right needs to stop providing a platform to its extremists, and to read columnist Michael Gerson speaking of the need to shove them to the margins, and to learn that Erickson has banned birthers -- i.e., people who persist in the asinine belief that President Obama was not born in the U.S.A. -- from his website.
>
> ``At some point, you have to use the word `crazy,' '' he says. And he's right, of course.
> Talking crazy, how about Micheal Moore and his theory that 9/11 was not the result of terrorist but an inside job by Bush.How many on the left have repudiated him?-Roger
> But that point came a long time ago.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lfalen
> To: Saundra Lund ; 'Ted Moffett' ; 'Saundra Lund'
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 10:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Imagine That, Butch - Politics Is a Rough 'Sport'
>
>
> Saundra
> There are undoubtedly some wingnuts in the Tea Party as there is in most organizations. The bulk of them however are for smaller government, freemarkets, and adhering to the Constitution. There main emphasis is not social issues. They are Libertarians to the extent that most support individual rights. There are a few that buy into conspiracy theories. most do not. You can go to the internet and download "The Articles of Freedom" Produced by The Continental Congress 2009. This will give you a good idea of where the majority of them stand. The Tea Party is being labeled as truthers and birthers. There are a few that may buy into this. As far as truther go that is something that was put forward by that left wing digbat Michael Moore.
> Roger
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Saundra Lund" v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm
> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 00:59:07 -0800
> To: "'lfalen'" lfalen at turbonet.com, "'Ted Moffett'" starbliss at gmail.com, "'Saundra Lund'" v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Imagine That, Butch - Politics Is a Rough 'Sport'
>
> > Hi Roger,
> >
> > With respect to Tea Baggers, you wrote:
> > "They may support a third alternative only if nether of the main parties have a candidate that is for limited government, individual rights and sticks to the Constitution."
> >
> > I wish that were true. Unfortunately, the initial Tea Bagger movement has been co-opted, and a great many of the tea baggers I've spoken with -- including those who attended the "rally" in Asotin County -- are simply wingnuts who believe all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories with palpable racist overtones and absolutely no understanding of what the Constitution *really* says. It's quite sad, actually :-(
> >
> > I got a call from the DNC recently trying to raise money for our state DINO Walt Minnick, and they got an earful from me :-) I probably most identify with the libertarian notion, but in Idaho, that doesn't mean anything at all with respect to parties, and certainly not the GOP. In Idaho, we can't blame the pathetic state of affairs -- including HCR 44 & SB 1353 as well as the gutting of education-- on any party BUT the GOP.
> >
> > So, how do you, Roger, reconcile your continued support?
> >
> >
> >
> > Saundra Lund
> > Moscow, ID
> >
> > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.
> > ~ Edmund Burke
> >
> > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2010 through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the author.*****
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lfalen [mailto:lfalen at turbonet.com]
> > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:38 AM
> > To: Ted Moffett; Saundra Lund
> > Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Imagine That, Butch - Politics Is a Rough 'Sport'
> >
> > Don't count on the Tea Party supporting a third party. they will support individual candidates regardless of which party they belong to. They may support a third alternative only if nether of the main parties have a candidate that is for limited government, individual rights and sticks to the Constitution.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Ted Moffett starbliss at gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 23:45:36 -0800
> > To: Saundra Lund v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Imagine That, Butch - Politics Is a Rough 'Sport'
> >
> > > Otter will likely be re-elected. Current political Madison Avenue
> > > advertising/propaganda trends indicate Democrats are successfully being
> > > blamed for the economic problems the US faces, which of course are to a
> > > great extent the result of past public and private sector decisions, not
> > > current Democratic economic policy. And if the US economy does not
> > > substantially lower the unemployment rate by 2012, Obama may find he will
> > > serve only one term, assuming he will run again, regardless of whether the
> > > economic problems are due to his failures or not. Of course, the Tea Party
> > > independents may split the Republican vote, if they succeed in promoting a
> > > third candidate, so Obama may still have a chance, even if the economy does
> > > not rebound by 2012. But Otter can attract both Tea Party independents and
> > > more traditional Republicans... In a political cultural landscape where
> > > Sarah Palin receives a huge amount of media attention as a potential
> > > political candidate, we can assume that rational decision making in the body
> > > politic is in serious jeopardy. I suppose this has always been the case...
> > > -----------------------------------------
> > > Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/4/10, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ken wrote:
> > > > "Otter may find he will share with Governor Samuelson another
> > > > characteristic
> > > > -- serving only one term in office."
> > > >
> > > > >From your fingertips to the will of the voters :-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Saundra Lund
> > > > Moscow, ID
> > > >
> > > > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> > > > nothing.
> > > > ~ Edmund Burke
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> > > > On Behalf Of Kenneth Marcy
> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:38 AM
> > > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Imagine That, Butch - Politics Is a Rough 'Sport'
> > > >
> > > > On Tuesday 02 March 2010 06:06:14 Tom Hansen relayed to V2020:
> > > >
> > > > > Imagine that, Butch - politics is a rough 'sport'
> > > > > Sandra Kelly, for the [MPDN] editorial board [2 March 2010]
> > > > >
> > > > > Gov. C.L. "Butch" Otter isn't having fun in Boise. He's been
> > > > > bombarded by newspapers throughout the state for some of his
> > > > > budgetary decisions, and it's been hard on him.
> > > > <[snip]>
> > > > > Otter has said repeatedly that he won't raise taxes. That's a great
> > > > > sound bite, and almost a sure-fire way to get re-elected, but it
> > > > > may not be in the best interest of Idaho.
> > > > >
> > > > > No one wants to pay more taxes, but it's certainly something that
> > > > > should be looked at. It's not popular, and the Legislature will
> > > > > take some heat for it, but at least looking into it is the right
> > > > > thing to do.
> > > > <[snip]>
> > > >
> > > > It used to be said that it took a hard-line anti-Communist Republican
> > > > such as Richard Nixon to open foreign relations with Communist Red
> > > > China. Analogously, it was said that it took a tax-and-spend liberal
> > > > Democrat such as Bill Clinton to reform the welfare system. Both of
> > > > these Presidents enjoyed some relative success for these efforts.
> > > >
> > > > Butch Otter does not, thus far, at least, seem to have an analogous
> > > > combination of domestic acuity and political maneuverability to
> > > > recognize the extant condition of his constituency and to act with
> > > > appropriate governance in the better interests of the electorate.
> > > >
> > > > To date Otter's insistent resistance even to considering reasonable
> > > > measures to steer Idaho's budget boat toward some semblance of the
> > > > status quo, rather than meekly and weakly allowing the craft to be
> > > > washed down the economic stream, rudderless, controlled by the
> > > > vagaries of the current rather than experienced helmsmanship, does
> > > > not suggest any historical greatness for his governorship.
> > > >
> > > > One is reminded, instead, of an earlier Idaho governor who had
> > > > difficulty expressing leadership vision -- Donald Samuelson. Governor
> > > > Otter may find he will share with Governor Samuelson another
> > > > characteristic -- serving only one term in office.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > > =======================================================
> > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > =======================================================
> > > >
> > > > =======================================================
> > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > =======================================================
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
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