[Vision2020] Say What?

Sue Hovey suehovey at moscow.com
Sat Apr 10 11:36:48 PDT 2010


Roger,

My, my.....After reading your response to Saundra here, I'm left thinking, 
"What a tangled web we weave,"   with all this "some on the right,"  and 
"not all those on the left."  I hearken  to your statement regarding the 
definition of Nazism being leftist.  As a  liberal (leftist) I found your 
analogy a tad offensive so I vetted your claim and found it to be 
unsupportable from a Webster's or Funk and Wagnall's perspective.  The 
descriptive phrase from Webster is:  nationalism, racism, rearmament, 
aggression."  I readily admit I don't have access to "A Revisionist's 
Definition of Terms We Love to Hate," but you might want to change the 
subject.

Sue

--------------------------------------------------
From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:00 PM
To: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm>; "'Tom Hansen'" 
<thansen at moscow.com>; "'Garrett Clevenger'" <garrettmc at verizon.net>
Cc: "'Moscow Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?

> Saundra
> I do not know how you can continue to insist that the Nazis were on the 
> right, when the basic difference between left and right is that the  left 
> believes in varying degrees of government control and the right believes 
> in free markets and individual freedom to varying degrees.There are of 
> course some exceptions to this as some but not all of those on the left 
> believe in freedom in thing regarding sex and some but not all of those on 
> the right would like to regulate it. It gets confusing as some on the lett 
> want to prohibit any expression of religion in the schools, while some on 
> the right would like to prohibit the teaching of evolution or demand that 
> Intelligent Design be taught in science classes. The basics though is a 
> matter of economics. You might have some grounds for your position based 
> on the fact that some dictators allow for the free market to operate. They 
> are not on the right as far as individual freedom is concerned. When I 
> took political science from Robert Hos!
> ack, he
> described the various ideologies as a circle rather than a straight line. 
> In this view the extreme right and extreme left would meet. If you except 
> that view. you would again have a point.
> The left is very good at taking things that are perceived as bad and 
> hanging it on those that the disagree with(Nazi, racist, etc). and taking 
> those things that have a favorable connotation( liberal and progressive) 
> and adopting it for themselves.  This was born out very well in the last 
> election. When anyone who disagreed with Obama  was labeled a racist. This 
> had the desired effect of making some people reluctant to comment. Stalin 
> said "If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth" At least the 
> perceivrd truth. This is what is taking place here. The left is 
> hypocritical when they said "We won, shut up and except it" They did not 
> have this position when Bush won as they should not have.
> Roger
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Saundra Lund" v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm
> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:21:44 -0700
> To: "'lfalen'" lfalen at turbonet.com, "'Tom Hansen'" thansen at moscow.com, 
> "'Garrett Clevenger'" garrettmc at verizon.net
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Say What?
>
>> Roger,
>>
>> As I said, ***read the primary source material*** referenced in the 
>> bibliography -- I have.  I'm not asking you to accept Wikipedia's word 
>> for it but rather the expert words of the experts cited.
>>
>> Again, the definitions you keep repeating ABSOLUTELY DO NOT support your 
>> assertion that Nazism is on the left.  The reality is that it is 
>> generally accepted by expert scholars that Nazism is on the ***far*** 
>> right.  If you want to argue that, have at it, but you're going to have 
>> to have an approach other than sticking your fingers in your ears and 
>> repeatedly announcing, "BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!"
>>
>> My political science husband has suggested trying this un-academic 
>> approach with you since reason is failing to make it through your 
>> misunderstanding.  Question:  why, Roger, do you suppose around the world 
>> it's FAR RIGHT POLITICIANS -- and not leftist ones --  who have to 
>> denounce Nazism and any connection to Nazism???
>>
>> Answer:  IT'S BECAUES NAZISM IS ON THE FAR RIGHT!!!!
>>
>> Sheesh!
>>
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund
>> Moscow, ID
>>
>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do 
>> nothing.
>> ~ Edmund Burke
>>
>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2010 through life 
>> plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce 
>> outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of 
>> the author.*****
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lfalen [mailto:lfalen at turbonet.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 12:37 PM
>> To: Saundra Lund; 'Tom Hansen'; 'Garrett Clevenger'
>> Cc: 'Moscow Vision 2020'
>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Say What?
>>
>> Saundra
>> Wikipedia is notorious for being inaccurate. Anyone can post to it. Try 
>> Merriam-Webster. My source is Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, 
>> copyright 1997, page 767.  Nazism- The body and economic doctrines held 
>> and put into effect by the National Socialist German Workers Party in the 
>> Third Reich including the totalitarian principle of government, state 
>> control of all industry, predominance of groups assumed to be racially 
>> superior, and or the supremacy of the fuhrer.
>> Roger
>> -----Original message-----
>> From: "Saundra Lund" v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm
>> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 11:46:09 -0700
>> To: "'lfalen'" lfalen at turbonet.com, "'Tom Hansen'" thansen at moscow.com, 
>> "'Garrett Clevenger'" garrettmc at verizon.net
>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Say What?
>>
>> > Hi Roger,
>> >
>> > First, we're enjoying the pheasants, too -- I'm thinking their 
>> > temporary
>> > disappearance was the effect of a brutal winter and wet spring with 
>> > their
>> > associated high rates of mortality.  I'm glad you're enjoying the 
>> > pheasants
>> > and quail as much as we are!
>> >
>> > Second, I give up on you.  No one is arguing with the Merriam-Webster
>> > definitions but rather with your extrapolations from those 
>> > definitions --
>> > that's where you are dead wrong.  Period.
>> >
>> > "Nazism (Nationalsozialismus, National Socialism) was the ideology and
>> > practice of the Nazi Party and of Nazi Germany.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] 
>> > It
>> > was a unique variety of fascism that involved biological racism and
>> > anti-Semitism.[9] Nazism presented itself as politically syncretic,
>> > incorporating policies, tactics and philosophies from right- and 
>> > left-wing
>> > ideologies; in practice, Nazism was a far right form of politics.[10]."
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
>> >
>> > Read the primary source materials provided in the bibliography, and 
>> > then let
>> > us know you Get It.  Or at least provide an intelligent rebuttal of the
>> > position of the credible scholars that Nazism is ***far*** right rather 
>> > than
>> > just repeating your personal and erroneous opinion.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Saundra Lund
>> > Moscow, ID
>> >
>> > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to 
>> > do
>> > nothing.
>> > ~ Edmund Burke
>> >
>> > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2010 through life 
>> > plus
>> > 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce 
>> > outside
>> > the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
>> > author.*****
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
>> > [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>> > On Behalf Of lfalen
>> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:35 AM
>> > To: Tom Hansen; Garrett Clevenger
>> > Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
>> >
>> > I give up on you guys. These were not my definitions that I sent Wayne
>> > Price, they are from Merriam-Webster. If you do not believe me, check 
>> > your
>> > dictionary. If you want to rewrite the dictionary, maybe you should go 
>> > join
>> > the Flat Earth Society.
>> > As for being on the left. The left wing in the 20's embraced both 
>> > Hitler and
>> > Mussolini up untill the World War II started. They also originated 
>> > Eugenics.
>> > Hitler picked it from them. Both Margaret Sanger and Oliver Wendell 
>> > Homes
>> > supported Eugenics. If you want verification Tom, look it up on Google. 
>> > It
>> > is easy to find.
>> > Roger
>> >
>> > Note to Saundra- In a post of yours a couple of years ago, you asked 
>> > where
>> > have all the pheasants gone. They are back in my yard and pasture. I 
>> > enjoy
>> > watching them and the quail.
>> > -----Original message-----
>> > From: "Tom Hansen" thansen at moscow.com
>> > Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:17:46 -0700
>> > To: "Garrett Clevenger" garrettmc at verizon.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
>> >
>> > > Exactly.
>> > >
>> > > What was your first clue, Roger, that the Nazis were/are far left?
>> > >
>> > > Their systematic execution of homosexuals?
>> > >
>> > > The elimination of individual rights?
>> > >
>> > > Or simply their attempt to destroy democracy?
>> > >
>> > > Tom Hansen
>> > > Moscow, Idaho
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Roger writes:
>> > > >
>> > > > "It is convenient for the left to place them on the right. this 
>> > > > makes it
>> > > > easier for them to demonise the right and marginalize them by
>> > > > association."
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Er, isn't this what Roger just did by saying "The Nazis are on the
>> > left."?
>> > > >
>> > > > I'll continue his quote to make his nazi one more realisitic.
>> > > >
>> > > > "They ...  may want freedom for themselves, but not for others. 
>> > > > This
>> > does
>> > > > not place them on the {left}, who wants freedom for everyone. 
>> > > > {nazis}
>> > > > basically are kooks and cannot be categorized as being left or 
>> > > > right."
>> > > >
>> > > > So Roger is part right, even if he is or isn't "on the right."
>> > > >
>> > > > Garrett
>> > > >
>> > > > =======================================================
>> > > >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > > >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > > >                http://www.fsr.net
>> > > >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > > =======================================================
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to 
>> > > change
>> > > and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>> > >
>> > > - Unknown
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > =======================================================
>> > >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > >                http://www.fsr.net
>> > >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > =======================================================
>> >
>> > =======================================================
>> >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >                http://www.fsr.net
>> >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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