[Vision2020] WTF?

Sat Nov 7 09:22:32 PST 2009

While I continue to hold Garrett in high regard, I'm getting by the
recurring "blame the victim" tenor in this discussion.  The best analogy I
can find is that he's presented one side only of the old defense, "he needed
killing."

I could certainly find lots of blame in this picture were I so inclined, and
it would encompass more than just blaming the victim and would absolutely
include those who chose by their behavior to cause what Garrett calls a
"crime of passion."  The situation certainly sounds like it was FUBAR, but
it wasn't only the dead victim actions that played a pivotal role in what
happened - there were terrible choices by several people all along the way.

Garrett wrote:

"Obviously he would be jealous of the affair, but he overreacted and set up
the circustance under which he was gunned down"

Why didn't the shooter call the cops for help when he received the weird
phone call in the wee morning hours, particularly since he later told the
cops that the victim had come at him many times before & since everyone in
that weird circle seemed well aware of previous reported threats?  He made a
choice not to, and that choice had fatal consequences for the victim.

And, let's not forget that the shooter had a gun & the victim didn't.

Garrett wrote:

"It seems to me that it would send the message that risky behaviour can lead
to death."

Yes, the shooter's risky behavior lead to the death of the victim, plain and
simple.  That risky behavior lead to the death of a man, and the cost that
life was five months, which I think is absolutely insane.

I'm personally uncomfortable that the victim was shot several times after
the first "heart" shot killed him instantly.

However, it seems this whole situation was incredibly bizarre and
convoluted, so while I can understand - just based on what was reported and
has been said here - that perhaps this wasn't a killing that required
locking up the shooter for a decade, five months is absolutely crazy.  The
shooter is responsible for voluntarily and unjustifiably killing another
human being, and the punishment absolutely should be more than five months
in jail and 15 years probation or human life is cheapened for all of us.

Garrett wrote:

"Perhaps it's just an extension of self-defense."

Bull crap - the shooter apparently knew that defense wouldn't wash, which is
likely why he copped a plea.  The killer himself didn't even have enough
confidence in that perversion of a legitimate defense to present it.

Garrett wrote:

"Lots of people are assholes.  Maybe James is, too."

I guess time will tell, and hopefully there won't be another dead or
battered person to make it indisputably clear.

Certainly, he has a huge moral obligation to the child of the man he killed.
The fatherless child deserves no less than to never want for anything in her
life, and the killer needs to spend the rest of his life working to ensure
that her childhood is financially secure and that she can get a college
education - that child needs to be his first financial priority until she's
fully grown.  It's the very least he can do to try to in some way make
amends for killing her father.

Garrett wrote:

"The saddest thing for me is that Tyler's daughter will never know her
father, but one day she'll deserve to know what happened to her dad.  What's
that going to do to her?"

I can only hope that the adults involved have enough sense to get
professional guidance and grow up a h*ll of a lot!  Blaming the victim - her
father -- certainly won't do her any favors.  I have no idea how you'd ever
explain to a child that her father's life was only worth five months . . . 

Garrett wrote:

"The criminal justice system is underfunded and over stretched.  There are
only so many prison beds.  I can understand why those intimate with the
system are looking for ways to keep people out.  They found someone in this
case.  Perhaps they would think differently if they had unlimited
resources."

While I agree with much of the above, I completely reject the notion that
society is better off kicking violent offenders - which the shooter is -
out.  Many, many, many people have had the opportunity to commit "crimes of
passion" yet have the self-restraint not to do so in situations way more
FUBAR than this.  The fact that the shooter made a long series of bad
choices that resulted in the unnecessary death of the victim at his hand
puts him in a special category that deserves more punishment than five
flippin' months in prison.

OTOH, since he was given such a generous gift, he'd better make the best of
it by putting the fatherless child at the very top of his financial
priorities.  If he doesn't do so, then he'll remain nothing more than the
dirt bag continuing to make the kind of irresponsible and rotten choices
that lead him to kill.

"I have a vested interest in getting my perspective out there"

It's a crime the victim isn't around to get his perspective out there,
something everyone reading this thread should remember.

And it's a shame the victim's genuine loved ones aren't here to get their
perspectives out as well.  There are always at least two sides to every
story, and I suspect those who genuinely loved Tyler would have a different
and just as valuable perspectives.

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.

~ Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through life plus
70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
author.*****

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Garrett Clevenger
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 7:47 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] WTF?

Wayne writes:

"What this decision says is that in slightly modified form the unwritten law
(It's OK to kill your spouse's lover) is in full operation in Latah County."

It was not a spouse's lover who was killed in this case.  It wasn't even the
lover's spouse who was killed.

The guy killed found out his friend of many years had sex with someone Tyler
was not in a committed relationship with at the time.  It was not Tyler's
spouse.  

Tyler and the woman have a kid together, and had an off and on again
relationship, but they were not a couple.  Tyler had chosen to not be with
the woman, leaving child care mostly to her, over a several year period.
Obviously he would be jealous of the affair, but he overreacted and set up
the circustance under which he was gunned down.  

He was not an innocent victim who happened to be in the line of fire of a
deranged lunatic.

Strangely, Tyler aparently had a dream before he was killed that James
killed him.  Obviously there was animosity between these to old friends.

Tyler went to James' house to confront him, leaving the impression he
expected to die.  He threatened James's family.  He had attacked James in
the past.

The drama Tyler instilled played out.  It seems fate worked in a mysterious
way.

Don writes:

"Apparently though, 5-15yrs. somehow translates to 5mo. Great message for
the next generation of lawmakers and the rational/logical thinking young
adults running around screwing eachother."

It seems to me that it would send the message that risky behaviour can lead
to death.  That threatening another person, even a old friend, can lead to
tragic consequences.  I suppose one could infer that if you are that old
friend who feels threatened then you can kill the threatener and get off.
Perhaps it's just an extension of self-defense.

I doubt this case is a blip in what's out there corrupting our kids, in any
case.

The saddest thing for me is that Tyler's daughter will never know her
father, but one day she'll deserve to know what happened to her dad.  What's
that going to do to her?

The criminal justice system is underfunded and over stretched.  There are
only so many prison beds.  I can understand why those intimate with the
system are looking for ways to keep people out.  They found someone in this
case.  Perhaps they would think differently if they had unlimited resources.

g writes:

"Clearly cold blooded killer, asshole, and once and future menace to society
would be a much more accurate description."

I doubt what James did was out of cold-bloodedness.  Describing him as being
cruel in his actions disregards the circumstances around what happened, and
waters down true cold-blooded behavior.

Lots of people are assholes.  Maybe James is, too.

Future menace to society?  If that's g's prophesy, one might also say that
throwing James in prison would make him crueler and more of a potential
menace, while ripping apart another family.  Why should two kids be out a
dad?

Who's to say that James didn't save an innocent life by killing someone
wigged out?  Who's to say Tyler wouldn't have killed someone driving in his
deranged state, or hurt someone else in frustration?  Worse things have
happened in Moscow.

I didn't know Tyler well.  I can't say what he was thinking.  I'm shocked by
all this.  It is hard to believe that someone I almost married became the
center of all this.

I've thought about how if I ended up marrying her, Tyler would still be
alive.

But I can't change the past, predict what might have happened, or tell you
how someone will turn out in the future.  If someone has that crystal ball,
please show me sometime.  

I feel pretty detached from all this as I was far removed from the
circumstances, but I have a vested interest in getting my perspective out
there, for what it's worth.

Thanks.

Garrett Clevenger

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