[Vision2020] vandals strike again

lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Fri Nov 6 13:31:35 PST 2009


Paul
You would be correct in that most Atheists would agree to "Live and let live" . However there  a lot of them that want to root out all vestige's of religion.This would be a violation of freedom of religion. If you google Ken Falen you will find a radical Atheist site.  He was a cousin of dad's
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 08:25:54 -0800
To: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vandals strike again

> There is no "goal of Atheists".  They are defined simply by their lack 
> of belief in something.  They have nothing in common other than that.  
> Most people around here don't believe in Zeus.  With respect to Zeus, 
> almost everyone around here is an Atheist.  That doesn't mean they have 
> a common goal to root out Zeus-worship.
> 
> The billboard is a reaction to the very demonization you are displaying 
> here.  They aren't trying to anger anyone, they are just trying to make 
> people aware that some people out there you might run into aren't 
> religious and seem to get along fine without religion.  They make no 
> mention of what religious people should do.  They are just hoping that 
> people will remember that not everyone believes as the majority does, 
> and stop trying to force their religious views on them.
> 
> As for atheists advocating for the trashing of the Earth, Atheists don't 
> believe there is a better world waiting for them after they are dead.  
> That means that this world is more important to them as a consequence.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Donovan Arnold wrote:
> > Selina,
> >  
> > Just because the Supreme Court of the United States says it is 
> > morally correct doesn't make it anymore so. It also says the death 
> > penalty and abortions are correct. It also suppressed the rights of 
> > Blacks, Woman, and now Gays and Lesbians.
> >  
> > To say that it doesn't disturb people, is factually incorrect, as 
> > people are destroying the signs. For every one person that vandalizes 
> > a sign, there has to be a 1000 more that wish it so.
> >  
> > My argument has more to do with littering the highway with big trashy 
> > billboards. Which the Earth itself rejects.
> >  
> > If the goal of Atheist are to anger the general public while trashing 
> > the Earth, I think they have achieved their goal.
> >  
> > Donovan Arnold
> >
> > --- On *Fri, 11/6/09, Selina Davis /<selinadavis at hotmail.com>/* wrote:
> >
> >
> >     From: Selina Davis <selinadavis at hotmail.com>
> >     Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> >     To: "Vision 2020 List" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >     Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 1:13 AM
> >
> >     Donovan,
> >
> >     US Supreme Court precedent dealing with the First Amendment
> >     would tend to differ with your conclusion.  The message conveyed
> >     by the sign simply does not fall within any of the categories of
> >     speech (true threat, incitement, hate speech, defamation,
> >     commercial speech, purely prurient obscenity, or speech that
> >     invades the subject's privacy) that may be regulated, prohibited,
> >     or punished based on content.
> >      
> >     After two and a half years of parenting a pre-schooler who's now
> >     in first grade, I'd say that dealing with the occasional awkward
> >     conversation seems to come with the territory.  I doubt that any
> >     literate child would be troubled, let alone traumatized, by that
> >     sign, particularly if his or her parent could provide a calm and
> >     rational response when the child asks, "What does that mean,
> >     anyway?"  I can also honestly say that my belief in God was not
> >     shaken in third grade, when my then-best friend shared that she
> >     and her mother were atheists.  I just found it curious.  For what
> >     it's worth.
> >      
> >     - Selina
> >      
> >     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >     Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 16:22:50 -0800
> >     From: donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com
> >     To: bear at moscow.com
> >     CC: vision2020 at secure.fsr.com
> >     Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> >
> >     Wayne, that is remarkably simple.
> >      
> >     Communities should get to decide what is appropriate content for
> >     the general public to have unwillingly thrust in their face and
> >     the eyes of their children and where it is appropriate.
> >      
> >     Donovan Arnold
> >      
> >
> >
> >     --- On *Thu, 11/5/09, Wayne Price /<bear at moscow.com>/* wrote:
> >
> >
> >         From: Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>
> >         Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> >         To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>
> >         Cc: "<vision2020 at secure.fsr.com>" <vision2020 at secure.fsr.com>
> >         Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 11:08 PM
> >
> >         Donovan,
> >
> >         The problem is WHO gets to decide what is an appropriate
> >         context?  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         On Nov 5, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:
> >
> >             That's funny. I think all roadside billboards should be
> >             taken down, they make American Roadways ugly and cause
> >             accidents. Or at least it should be legal to have big
> >             bushy mustaches drawn on their faces, unless it is
> >             Geraldo, then you would have to paint over the mustache. :
> >             V| D
> >              
> >             I don't think billboards announcing that Santa isn't real,
> >             or how to use a condom is appropriate either, because
> >             children can read those signs, and they do, and a parent
> >             may wish to censor what ads and information their children
> >             receive.
> >              
> >             Case and point; A child is coming home from their
> >             Grandmother's funeral or a school shooting funeral. They
> >             tell the child grandmother or friend are with God. Then
> >             they read a sign saying, there is no God.
> >              
> >             I am for free speech, but always in an appropriate context.
> >              
> >             This is ironic too, maybe the Humanists can pray their
> >             signs won't be vandalized. Or find a more appropriate  way
> >             of expressing their point of view.
> >              
> >             Donovan Arnold
> >
> >
> >             --- On *Thu, 11/5/09, Wayne Price /<bear at moscow.com
> >             <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bear@moscow.com>>/*
> >             wrote:
> >
> >
> >                 From: Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com
> >                 <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bear@moscow.com>>
> >                 Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> >                 To: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> >                 <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>>
> >                 Cc: "<vision2020 at secure.fsr.com
> >                 <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@secure.fsr.com>>"
> >                 <vision2020 at secure.fsr.com
> >                 <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@secure.fsr.com>>
> >                 Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 3:58 PM
> >
> >                 Once the Humanists  get the sign redone, and I really
> >                 hope they do, would it be that hard to REMOVE the
> >                 ladder leading up to the platform?
> >                 Carrying a can of paint at night is one thing, but
> >                 paint and a ladder?  Perhaps  the creeps could be
> >                 caught that way.
> >                 Or, perhaps  a camera, so the creeps could be
> >                 identified and prosecuted?
> >
> >
> >
> >                 On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
> >
> >                     This is against free speech, against property
> >                     rights, and against religious freedom.
> >
> >
> >
> >                     On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:38 PM, keely emerinemix
> >                     <kjajmix1 at msn.com
> >                     <http://us..mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kjajmix1@msn.com>>
> >                     wrote:
> >
> >                         I wish whoever is doing this would knock it
> >                         off.  If the most courageous stand you can
> >                         make for your faith in God is to deface a
> >                         billboard, you've really got some spiritual
> >                         inventory to examine.
> >
> >                         Keely
> >                         www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
> >                         <http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >                         From: london at moscow.com
> >                         <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=london@moscow.com>
> >                         To: vision2020 at secure.fsr.com
> >                         <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo..com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@secure.fsr.com>
> >                         Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 12:13:55 -0800
> >                         Subject: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> >
> >                         Humanist Billboard Vandalized in Moscow,
> >                         Idaho…Again
> >
> >                         (Washington, D.C, November 4, 2009) An
> >                         individual or individuals have
> >                         defaced a billboard in Moscow, Idaho… again.
> >                         The billboard originally
> >                         read "Millions are good without God" but was
> >                         partially obscured with
> >                         blue paint to now read “Millions are good with
> >                         God”. It's the second
> >                         time the American Humanist Association
> >                         (AHA)-sponsored billboard has
> >                         been vandalized in two weeks. In the first
> >                         instance the word "without"
> >                         was completely blacked out, after which the
> >                         AHA quickly replaced the
> >                         billboard. The advertisement, which was
> >                         originally placed
> >                         mid-September, is part of an American Humanist
> >                         Association advertising
> >                         campaign to spread awareness about being good
> >                         without God. It's the
> >                         third billboard advertisement the organization
> >                         has displayed in the
> >                         Moscow area and similar ads have been put up
> >                         around the country.
> >
> >                         A picture of the vandalized billboard can be
> >                         found here:
> >                         http://www.americanhumanist.org/system/storage/29/1225/Picture_002.jpg.
> >                         The billboard can be found on Highway 95, just
> >                         south of Moscow near
> >                         the Sweet Avenue cross street, facing
> >                         northbound traffic.
> >
> >                         "The irony here is worth noting," said David
> >                         Niose, president of the
> >                         American Humanist Association. "Some
> >                         individuals are committing
> >                         criminal acts while apparently claiming that
> >                         their religious view of
> >                         the world leads to good behavior. It's not a
> >                         very convincing argument
> >                         on their part."
> >
> >                         "This is not just vandalism, it is religiously
> >                         motivated vandalism
> >                         which attempts to silence a minority
> >                         viewpoint," added Niose.
> >                         "Everyone, not just humanists, should be
> >                         concerned about such acts."
> >
> >                         The Moscow Police Department notified the AHA
> >                         this morning. They
> >                         believe the ad defaced between 1 and 3 am. The
> >                         AHA has alerted the
> >                         billboard company who leased the space, Lamar
> >                         Outdoor, who said they
> >                         will start leaving the lights on round the
> >                         clock. The AHA will be
> >                         replacing the billboard but hasn't yet decided
> >                         whether to go with the
> >                         same design.
> >
> >                         "I’m disturbed that this happened again," said
> >                         Roy Speckhardt,
> >                         executive director of the American Humanist
> >                         Association. "Two
> >                         consecutive crimes in a town where the last
> >                         incidence of billboard
> >                         vandalism was years ago makes it obvious that
> >                         humanists and our
> >                         message are being targeted.”
> >
> >                         The American Humanist Association
> >                         (www.americanhumanist.org
> >                         <http://www.americanhumanist.org/>) advocates
> >                         for the rights and viewpoints of humanists.
> >                         Founded in 1941 and
> >                         headquartered in Washington, D.C., its work is
> >                         extended through more
> >                         than 100 local chapters and affiliates across
> >                         the United States.
> >
> >                         Humanism is the idea that you can be good
> >                         without a belief in God.
> >
> >                         #
> >
> >                         Contact:
> >                         Karen Frantz
> >                         202-238-9088
> >                         cell: 703-725-4112
> >                         kfrantz at americanhumanist.org
> >                         <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kfrantz@americanhumanist.org>
> >
> >                         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >                         Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more.
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