[Vision2020] vandals strike again
lfalen
lfalen at turbonet.com
Fri Nov 6 13:31:35 PST 2009
Paul
You would be correct in that most Atheists would agree to "Live and let live" . However there a lot of them that want to root out all vestige's of religion.This would be a violation of freedom of religion. If you google Ken Falen you will find a radical Atheist site. He was a cousin of dad's
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 08:25:54 -0800
To: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> There is no "goal of Atheists". They are defined simply by their lack
> of belief in something. They have nothing in common other than that.
> Most people around here don't believe in Zeus. With respect to Zeus,
> almost everyone around here is an Atheist. That doesn't mean they have
> a common goal to root out Zeus-worship.
>
> The billboard is a reaction to the very demonization you are displaying
> here. They aren't trying to anger anyone, they are just trying to make
> people aware that some people out there you might run into aren't
> religious and seem to get along fine without religion. They make no
> mention of what religious people should do. They are just hoping that
> people will remember that not everyone believes as the majority does,
> and stop trying to force their religious views on them.
>
> As for atheists advocating for the trashing of the Earth, Atheists don't
> believe there is a better world waiting for them after they are dead.
> That means that this world is more important to them as a consequence.
>
> Paul
>
> Donovan Arnold wrote:
> > Selina,
> >
> > Just because the Supreme Court of the United States says it is
> > morally correct doesn't make it anymore so. It also says the death
> > penalty and abortions are correct. It also suppressed the rights of
> > Blacks, Woman, and now Gays and Lesbians.
> >
> > To say that it doesn't disturb people, is factually incorrect, as
> > people are destroying the signs. For every one person that vandalizes
> > a sign, there has to be a 1000 more that wish it so.
> >
> > My argument has more to do with littering the highway with big trashy
> > billboards. Which the Earth itself rejects.
> >
> > If the goal of Atheist are to anger the general public while trashing
> > the Earth, I think they have achieved their goal.
> >
> > Donovan Arnold
> >
> > --- On *Fri, 11/6/09, Selina Davis /<selinadavis at hotmail.com>/* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Selina Davis <selinadavis at hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> > To: "Vision 2020 List" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 1:13 AM
> >
> > Donovan,
> >
> > US Supreme Court precedent dealing with the First Amendment
> > would tend to differ with your conclusion. The message conveyed
> > by the sign simply does not fall within any of the categories of
> > speech (true threat, incitement, hate speech, defamation,
> > commercial speech, purely prurient obscenity, or speech that
> > invades the subject's privacy) that may be regulated, prohibited,
> > or punished based on content.
> >
> > After two and a half years of parenting a pre-schooler who's now
> > in first grade, I'd say that dealing with the occasional awkward
> > conversation seems to come with the territory. I doubt that any
> > literate child would be troubled, let alone traumatized, by that
> > sign, particularly if his or her parent could provide a calm and
> > rational response when the child asks, "What does that mean,
> > anyway?" I can also honestly say that my belief in God was not
> > shaken in third grade, when my then-best friend shared that she
> > and her mother were atheists. I just found it curious. For what
> > it's worth.
> >
> > - Selina
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 16:22:50 -0800
> > From: donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com
> > To: bear at moscow.com
> > CC: vision2020 at secure.fsr.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> >
> > Wayne, that is remarkably simple.
> >
> > Communities should get to decide what is appropriate content for
> > the general public to have unwillingly thrust in their face and
> > the eyes of their children and where it is appropriate.
> >
> > Donovan Arnold
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On *Thu, 11/5/09, Wayne Price /<bear at moscow.com>/* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: "<vision2020 at secure.fsr.com>" <vision2020 at secure.fsr.com>
> > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 11:08 PM
> >
> > Donovan,
> >
> > The problem is WHO gets to decide what is an appropriate
> > context?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 5, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:
> >
> > That's funny. I think all roadside billboards should be
> > taken down, they make American Roadways ugly and cause
> > accidents. Or at least it should be legal to have big
> > bushy mustaches drawn on their faces, unless it is
> > Geraldo, then you would have to paint over the mustache. :
> > V| D
> >
> > I don't think billboards announcing that Santa isn't real,
> > or how to use a condom is appropriate either, because
> > children can read those signs, and they do, and a parent
> > may wish to censor what ads and information their children
> > receive.
> >
> > Case and point; A child is coming home from their
> > Grandmother's funeral or a school shooting funeral. They
> > tell the child grandmother or friend are with God. Then
> > they read a sign saying, there is no God.
> >
> > I am for free speech, but always in an appropriate context.
> >
> > This is ironic too, maybe the Humanists can pray their
> > signs won't be vandalized. Or find a more appropriate way
> > of expressing their point of view.
> >
> > Donovan Arnold
> >
> >
> > --- On *Thu, 11/5/09, Wayne Price /<bear at moscow.com
> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bear@moscow.com>>/*
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com
> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bear@moscow.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> > To: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>>
> > Cc: "<vision2020 at secure.fsr.com
> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@secure.fsr.com>>"
> > <vision2020 at secure.fsr.com
> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@secure.fsr.com>>
> > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 3:58 PM
> >
> > Once the Humanists get the sign redone, and I really
> > hope they do, would it be that hard to REMOVE the
> > ladder leading up to the platform?
> > Carrying a can of paint at night is one thing, but
> > paint and a ladder? Perhaps the creeps could be
> > caught that way.
> > Or, perhaps a camera, so the creeps could be
> > identified and prosecuted?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
> >
> > This is against free speech, against property
> > rights, and against religious freedom.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:38 PM, keely emerinemix
> > <kjajmix1 at msn.com
> > <http://us..mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kjajmix1@msn.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > I wish whoever is doing this would knock it
> > off. If the most courageous stand you can
> > make for your faith in God is to deface a
> > billboard, you've really got some spiritual
> > inventory to examine.
> >
> > Keely
> > www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
> > <http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: london at moscow.com
> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=london@moscow.com>
> > To: vision2020 at secure.fsr.com
> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo..com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@secure.fsr.com>
> > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 12:13:55 -0800
> > Subject: [Vision2020] vandals strike again
> >
> > Humanist Billboard Vandalized in Moscow,
> > Idaho…Again
> >
> > (Washington, D.C, November 4, 2009) An
> > individual or individuals have
> > defaced a billboard in Moscow, Idaho… again.
> > The billboard originally
> > read "Millions are good without God" but was
> > partially obscured with
> > blue paint to now read “Millions are good with
> > God”. It's the second
> > time the American Humanist Association
> > (AHA)-sponsored billboard has
> > been vandalized in two weeks. In the first
> > instance the word "without"
> > was completely blacked out, after which the
> > AHA quickly replaced the
> > billboard. The advertisement, which was
> > originally placed
> > mid-September, is part of an American Humanist
> > Association advertising
> > campaign to spread awareness about being good
> > without God. It's the
> > third billboard advertisement the organization
> > has displayed in the
> > Moscow area and similar ads have been put up
> > around the country.
> >
> > A picture of the vandalized billboard can be
> > found here:
> > http://www.americanhumanist.org/system/storage/29/1225/Picture_002.jpg.
> > The billboard can be found on Highway 95, just
> > south of Moscow near
> > the Sweet Avenue cross street, facing
> > northbound traffic.
> >
> > "The irony here is worth noting," said David
> > Niose, president of the
> > American Humanist Association. "Some
> > individuals are committing
> > criminal acts while apparently claiming that
> > their religious view of
> > the world leads to good behavior. It's not a
> > very convincing argument
> > on their part."
> >
> > "This is not just vandalism, it is religiously
> > motivated vandalism
> > which attempts to silence a minority
> > viewpoint," added Niose.
> > "Everyone, not just humanists, should be
> > concerned about such acts."
> >
> > The Moscow Police Department notified the AHA
> > this morning. They
> > believe the ad defaced between 1 and 3 am. The
> > AHA has alerted the
> > billboard company who leased the space, Lamar
> > Outdoor, who said they
> > will start leaving the lights on round the
> > clock. The AHA will be
> > replacing the billboard but hasn't yet decided
> > whether to go with the
> > same design.
> >
> > "I’m disturbed that this happened again," said
> > Roy Speckhardt,
> > executive director of the American Humanist
> > Association. "Two
> > consecutive crimes in a town where the last
> > incidence of billboard
> > vandalism was years ago makes it obvious that
> > humanists and our
> > message are being targeted.”
> >
> > The American Humanist Association
> > (www.americanhumanist.org
> > <http://www.americanhumanist.org/>) advocates
> > for the rights and viewpoints of humanists.
> > Founded in 1941 and
> > headquartered in Washington, D.C., its work is
> > extended through more
> > than 100 local chapters and affiliates across
> > the United States.
> >
> > Humanism is the idea that you can be good
> > without a belief in God.
> >
> > #
> >
> > Contact:
> > Karen Frantz
> > 202-238-9088
> > cell: 703-725-4112
> > kfrantz at americanhumanist.org
> > <http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kfrantz@americanhumanist.org>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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