[Vision2020] Obama to Rescind Conscience Rule

Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Thu Mar 5 19:13:43 PST 2009


Sue,

I always thought that PhDs were better at finding things that only exist in the imaginary world. :P

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Thu, 3/5/09, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Obama to Rescind Conscience Rule
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>, "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Cc: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 6:26 PM



 
 

Given that a PhD is about as likely as an MD to 
find yours.
 
Sue H....

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Donovan Arnold 
  To: Sunil Ramalingam ; Joe 
  Campbell 
  Cc: vision 2020 
  Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 2:08 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Obama to 
  Rescind Conscience Rule
  

  
    
    
      You are right, you are not a MD.

 I would not 
        want a PhD in Philosophy touching my uterus. :)

I don't know of 
        any doctors that give flu shots. Most of them are done by Nurses, LPNs, 
        and MAs. : )

Best 
        Regards,

Donovan





--- On Thu, 3/5/09, 
        Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> 
        wrote:

        From: 
          Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Subject: 
          Re: [Vision2020] Obama to Rescind Conscience Rule
To: "Sunil 
          Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Cc: 
          "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: 
          Thursday, March 5, 2009, 8:20 AM


          
          I'm a doctor and I can tell you that if someone asked me to give 
          them an abortion I would refuse! Same thing if they asked for a flu 
          shot. I'm not that kind of doctor!

Joe Campbell
          
On Mar 5, 2009, at 6:21 AM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:


          
          
            It appears your opposition to straw men exists only when used 
            against your arguments.  You're employing that argument here, 
            using such extreme examples as to make them laughable.

Seems 
            to me the 'conscience rule' as enacted by your former idol was 
            mainly going to be used to allow pharmacists not to sell 
            contraceptive pills or devices, not to protect your mythical medical 
            professionals from performing procedures like 
            abortions.

Sunil


            
            From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: godshatter at yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 
            20:04:46 -0800
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 
            Obama to Rescind Conscience Rule


            The question  that everyone 
            continues to not answer is since when does earning an M.D.  or 
            entering the health care field automatically mean you must perform 
            or facilitate abortions on demand?
             
            I get the impression from comments you 
            have made on this forum that you are a computer/internet "guy" 
            Should you, assuming you would be otherwise 
            disinclined, be forced to create web sites for 
            Scientologists, pedophiles, or purveyors of porn? 
             
            g
            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
            To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
            Cc: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>; "Saundra Lund" <sslund_2007 at verizon.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:16 
            PM
            Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Obama to 
            Rescind Conscience Rule
            
> g. crabtree wrote:
>>  "I can 
            certainly see situations (as Saundra Lund notes) where medical 
            
>> providers, citing their religious beliefs, refuse to 
            provide prenatal 
>> care to various clients, refuse to 
            give ED medication, refuse to do 
>> reconstructive 
            surgery."
>>  
>> I'm thinking that you 
            imagine the situations more vividly then you 
>> might see 
            them. Let's leave the religious aspect of this discussion 
            
>> aside for a moment. While I find it more then a little 
            hard to believe 
>> that any other then the tiniest 
            fraction of medical providers would 
>> withhold the 
            services you list, I still would have to ask, so 
>> what? 
            Get a different provider. As I have argued in the past, all 
            
>> purveyors of goods and/or services, whether they be 
            landlords, 
>> physicians, pharmacists, bankers, grocers, 
            mechanics, or anyone 
>> else should be free to decide who 
            they want to work for and sell to 
>> based on whatever 
            whim strikes their fancy.
>>  
>> You're 
            apparently in favor of the right to be irresponsible. You're in 
            
>> favor of the right to not deal with the consequences of 
            irresponsible 
>> behavior. Above all else you're in favor 
            of the right to choose. What 
>> about my and others 
            rights? Why does the right to choose supersede 
>> everyone 
            else's right to view innocent life as something special and 
            
>> worthy of protection? What is it about your rights that 
            are so special 
>> that I have to be forced to join with 
            you in exercising them against 
>> my 
            will?
>>  
>> g
> 
> Don't 
            physicians already have the right to quit their jobs and go work 
            
> elsewhere if they feel they are being forced to do 
            something that goes 
> against their conscience?  Why do 
            we need legislation to allow employees 
> not to perform their 
            work duties?  I don't particularly like the idea of 
> 
            dialing 911 again and again until I get someone who is not a 
            Jehovah's 
> Witness and is willing to give me a blood 
            transfusion when I really need 
> it for example.
> 
            
> This is similar to the Muslim guy in the news a while back 
            that refused 
> to sell alcoholic beverages at a convenience 
            store.  He's unsuited for 
> the job he's in.  He 
            should be fired and replaced with someone who is 
> willing to 
            sell alcohol to adults.
> 
> If you're in a job that 
            might force you to do things you find 
> objectionable - find 
            another job.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
          
          
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