[Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Sun Mar 1 19:07:08 PST 2009
Tom,
What makes you think that our government would be successful in its regulation of drugs if it were to make them legal? What liability would our government have if it said it was OK to use cocaine, heroin, or meth? How would you make sure its increased availability would be kept out of the hands of youth?
What sort of influence do you think producers of exotic, expensive, and highly addictive drugs would have on our legal system, legislature, and members of congress if they were legal?
Best Regards,
Donovan
--- On Sun, 3/1/09, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>, "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 6:17 PM
Thanks for mentioning that, Sunil.
I was about to suggest that, in order to "control" the use/sale of
illicit
drugs, there are only two options that have shown any effectiveness . . .
1) In some countries, use and/or sale of illicit drugs is punishible by
death. In some countries a trial isn't even necessary. I do not, in
ABSOLUTELY any fashion, support this option and do not foresee our
legislature adopting it.
2) Legalize and regulate the use and/or sale of illicit drugs. Although
I support this option in relation to most drugs, inacting such legislation
is open for debate.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
>
> I don't think there are any policies that would accomplish what you
want
to> do, so I don't have any suggestions. I think that effort is a
waste
of
> time, energy, and money.
>
> I would decriminalize drugs instead and reduce the price.
>
> Sunil
> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 17:41:33 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> OK Suninstein,
>
> It is easy to be an critic. What policies would you create that would be
di> fferent, effective, and reduce the number of users of cocaine users
fro> m less than 1% to a minuscule number of the population?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
wrot> e:
> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 5:04 PM
>
>
>
>
> Donovan,
>
> I disagree.
>
> Our drug laws stand as a monument to our official inability to recognize
a
> simple truth about people: That we (not all us us, but enough) like to
us> e substances that affect our consciousness. Some religions ban this,
man> y states do, but people still want to do it.
>
> We are spending a ridiculous amount of money fighting human nature, and
i> t isn't working. Because it's illegal it's more expensive,
and there's
en> ough money in it to make people take enormous risks.
>
> It's long been time to take a different approach. Our current one is a
fail> ure.
>
> Sunil
>
> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 16:44:15 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> Sunil,
>
> I agree with you that we need to help people with their problems and not
us> e drugs as a solution, I think you are wrong on the supply side.
>
> The fact that the drug dealers are having to smuggle the cocaine over the
b> oarder, is very indicative that the American people have rejected this
pr> oduct. We have spent billions on stopping it, and it is illegal in
every
> state and county in the country. That seems like a pretty overwhelming
reje> ction of the drug. Less than one percent of the population uses it.
>
> The demand was created by "pushers" illegally as well, and the
illegal
an> d dangerous addictiveness of the product is what also keeps the
demand. We
> didn't create the demand, the demand was created for us.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
>
> --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Sunil Ramalingam
> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 8:48 AM
>
>
>
>
> Donovan,
>
> I think your premise is wrong. No one is forcing drugs on Americans. WE
h> ave created the demand. It is a DEMAND problem, not a supply problem.
>
> Sunil
>
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:06:05 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> Sunil,
>
> I took your question in a broader context.
>
> If the US was forcing cocaine into the a South America and creating
violenc> e and death in their streets, yes, they would have the right to
destroy> the crops in the US, or at least try to.
>
> Best
> Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
wro> te:
> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 3:07 PM
>
>
>
>
> Yes, Donovan, I missed the event when Central and South Americans
attac> ked the biggest things in New York.
>
> 9/11, you say? My, that's one big cover-up if they were involved.
>
> At any rate, my question remains the same. Do our actions give our
victi> ms the right to bomb us? If no, why not?
>
> Sunil
>
> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:47:50 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> Sunil
>
> They do blow "things" up here. In fact, they took out the two
biggest
thi> ngs in the biggest city. Perhaps you missed that
> whole 9/11 thingy.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
wro> te:
> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:28 PM
>
>
>
>
> Donovan,
>
> Do the people we bomb have the right to try to blow up things here? If
not> , why?
>
> Sunil
>
> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:07:14 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; nickgier at roadrunner.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
>
> What Nick doesn't realize is that it isn't the government's
responsibility
> to keep people off drugs. That is the responsibility of the individual.
Onl> y you can decide not to use drugs and take responsibility for your
behavior> and decisions to use or not use drugs, and what you put in your
body.
>
> The government has made it clear to
> anyone who will listen from 5 years old to 105 years old, DON'T USE
DRUG> S. That is all they can do. They provide information to people for
free,
> and they offer free drug counseling, and help with getting off drug
addic> tion.
>
> I use to drink heavily, and smoke up to three packs of cigarettes a
day> , and I will not talk about anything else I did because this is a
public
> forum. But it was me, and me alone, that had the power to decide to
use> and stop using products abusive to my body.
>
> People think it is
> the responsibility of the government to do things for you. It is not. If
p> eople want to use drugs, they will. If they want to get off drugs,
they> will.
>
> I as a taxpayer can only do so much, and refuse to take blame for the
per> sonal decisions that people make with full knowledge of their actions
and
b> ehaviors.
>
> The Government didn't fail with drugs, only people that decided not to
ge> t off drugs fail. Only people that refuse to take personal
responsibility
a> re the ones that fail.
>
> And who really gives a damn if bombing cocaine fields in South America
make> s other nations mad. These people are doing wrong, and the US has
every
r> ight to protect themselves from people trying to do harm to our
citizens.
>
> Best Regards,
> Donovan
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, nickgier at roadrunner.com
<nickgier at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
> From: nickgier at roadrunner.com
> <nickgier at roadrunner.com>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 8:51 AM
>
> Good Morning Visionaries:
>
> This is my radio commentary/column for this week. I had Ted Moffett and a
> friend who's an expert in this area look this over before I polished
off
th> e
> rough draft.
>
> Ted suggested that I add the abuse of pharmaceuticals but the long
version
> was
> already approaching 2,000 words. Besides Ted has already posted some of
> the
> material here on the vision. Thanks, Ted, for your research which is
th> e best on
> the Vision on all the topics you cover.
>
> I just saw "Nixon/Frost" at the Kenworthy and I had to admit
that I
> began to empathize with the most despised of all presidents, but perhaps
> that
> was because of the superb acting of Frank
> Langella.
>
> The group Law
>
>
> Enforcement
> Against Prohibition (LEAP)has an excellent video at
> <www.leap.cc/cms/index.php?name=Content&pid=28>.
>
> Nick Gier
>
> DRUG POLICY FAILURES FROM NIXON TO BUSH
>
> By Nick Gier
>
> Every one of the bastards that are out for legalizing marijuana is
Jewish.>
> What the Christ is the matter with the Jews, Bob?
> --Richard M. Nixon to Robert Haldeman
>
> Nixon is the first post-war president to declare war on drugs. He was
> determined to enforce a policy that placed marijuana in the same category
a> s
> heroin. In the early days of Nixon's war, a person caught with any
amount> of
> marijuana could be sentenced to seven years in prison.
>
> In 1971 Nixon appointed Pennsylvania Gov. Ray Shafer to chair the
National
> Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse, which unexpectedly recommended
th> at pot
> possession be decriminalized. Always coarse and obscene, Nixon lashed
ou> t
> at
> members of the
>
> Commission
> calling them
> "bastards" and
> "Jews."
>
> Since the day Nixon rejected the recommendations of the Shafer
Commission> ,
> fifteen million Americans have been arrested for marijuana charges (88
perc> ent
> for possession only), but pot dealing and smoking continue unabated.
Sinc> e 1980
> the number of drug offenders incarcerated by states increased from 6
percen> t to
> 21 percent and those in federal prisons went from 25 to 57 percent.
Sadly> , 80
> percent of all those in prison for drug offenses are either Latinos or
Afri> can
> Americans.
>
> Paramilitary SWAT teams in U.S. cities have been overly aggressive
against
> suspected drug dealers. The libertarian CATO Institute has reported that
t> hese
> units have entered the homes of 170 innocents and killed 43. The CATO
webs> ite
> also lists 23 nonviolent offenders and 25 police officers killed.
>
> Last year the U.S. spent $69 billion interfering in the lives of
> North
>
> and
> South
> Americans, supporting
> military activities and crop eradication that have
> alienated millions of people south of the border.
>
> In 2007 one of the first acts of Mexican President Felipe Calderon was to
u> se
> the army to crack down on Mexico's three major drug cartels. Calderon
used
> the army because local and regional police and many office holders had
alre> ady
> been bought off by the cartels. The results of Mexico's military
solution
> to drug smuggling have been disastrous. In the past two years an
estimated
> 8,790 people have been killed, including 800 soldiers and police
office> rs.
>
> Mexico is the transshipment point for 90 percent of the cocaine coming to
t> he
> U.S. The main source of this drug is Columbia, which has been the focus
> of U.S.
> efforts of eradication and interdiction. Since 2000 the U.S. has poured
$6
> billion dollars into Columbia, but cocaine production has still increased
>
> 4
> percent
> during that
> time.
>
> Large
> acreages of coca have been destroyed; the big cartels have been broken
> up; left-wing guerrillas are in retreat; and the streets of Bogata are
> safer.
> But the coca farmers have simply switched to smaller plots closer to the
ju> ngle
> and right-wing paramilitary units are still involved in cocaine
production
> and
> smuggling.
>
> Nixon's war on drugs have turned entire nations against us. Evo
Morales,> a
> former coca grower, is now Bolivia's president. At recent speech at
the
> UN,
> Morales held up a coca leaf and spoke about a World Health Organization
(WH> O)
> study that concluded that the ingestion of coca was not harmful and that
it
> might even have some beneficial effects. When I was in Peru in 2002, my
> guide
> distributed coca leaves to our group as a remedy for altitude sickness.
>
> In 1989 I chaired the Borah Symposium on the topic "Cocaine and
> Conflict" and our
>
> keynote speaker was Ethan
>
> Nadelman. Now the head of
> the
> Drug Policy Institute, he is a leading spokesman for drug
legalization,> which
> means legal regulation, not total free use (except of marijuana) of hard
> drugs.
>
>
> Proponents of legal regulation contend that removing the illegal trade
and
> criminal gangs will have the same positive effect as the ending of
Prohibit> ion
> in 1933. A $250-350 billion business would become a source for much
needed> tax
> revenue that can be used to rebuild communities and rehabilitate those
rela> tive
> few who have been addicted to drugs.
>
> A 2007 Zogby Poll asked the following question of 1028 people: "If
hard
> drugs such as heroin or cocaine were legalized, would you be likely to
us> e
> them." Only 6 answered in the affirmative.
> There are over 250 shops in the Netherlands where one can buy marijuana
> legally, but only 16 percent of the adult population has even tried
>
> cannibals,
> while 33 percent of
> Americans
> have. One commentator
> quipped that the Dutch have
> made smoking pot "uncool."
>
> Reading the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) website, one would
thin> k that
> liberalizing drug laws in Europe has been a complete failure. In England
do> ctors
> used to prescribe heroin to addicts under controlled conditions and their
> numbers stabilized at 2,000, but since that program was abolished in
19> 70 the
> number has risen to 300,000. Similar programs in Germany, Spain,
Swi> tzerland,
> and the Netherlands have proved effective.
>
> One of the most effective organizations for legal regulation of drugs is
La> w
> Enforcement against Prohibition (LEAP). Since its founding in 2002,
LEAP'> s
> membership, former police officers, DEA agents, and city
officials,> has grown to
> 5,000. These men and women have seen first hand how Nixon's war on
drugs
> has devastated their communities and made
>
> criminals out of ordinary citizens.
>
>
> As long as the
> U.S. has the
> highest drug use rate in the industrialized world,
> this demand will drive the criminal drug trade and will continue to
destabi> lize
> all the countries south of the border. We should immediately un-declare
the> wars
> on drugs and terror. Police surveillance and investigation should
replace
> paramilitary over-kill. We should decriminalize the use of marijuana and
we
> should try the policy of legal regulation of all other drugs and see if
it
> works.
>
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Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself there's really no reason ever to go
to work."
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