[Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Sun Mar 1 18:17:43 PST 2009
Thanks for mentioning that, Sunil.
I was about to suggest that, in order to "control" the use/sale of illicit
drugs, there are only two options that have shown any effectiveness . . .
1) In some countries, use and/or sale of illicit drugs is punishible by
death. In some countries a trial isn't even necessary. I do not, in
ABSOLUTELY any fashion, support this option and do not foresee our
legislature adopting it.
2) Legalize and regulate the use and/or sale of illicit drugs. Although
I support this option in relation to most drugs, inacting such legislation
is open for debate.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
>
> I don't think there are any policies that would accomplish what you want
to> do, so I don't have any suggestions. I think that effort is a waste
of
> time, energy, and money.
>
> I would decriminalize drugs instead and reduce the price.
>
> Sunil
> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 17:41:33 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> OK Suninstein,
>
> It is easy to be an critic. What policies would you create that would be
di> fferent, effective, and reduce the number of users of cocaine users
fro> m less than 1% to a minuscule number of the population?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
wrot> e:
> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 5:04 PM
>
>
>
>
> Donovan,
>
> I disagree.
>
> Our drug laws stand as a monument to our official inability to recognize
a
> simple truth about people: That we (not all us us, but enough) like to
us> e substances that affect our consciousness. Some religions ban this,
man> y states do, but people still want to do it.
>
> We are spending a ridiculous amount of money fighting human nature, and
i> t isn't working. Because it's illegal it's more expensive, and there's
en> ough money in it to make people take enormous risks.
>
> It's long been time to take a different approach. Our current one is a
fail> ure.
>
> Sunil
>
> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 16:44:15 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> Sunil,
>
> I agree with you that we need to help people with their problems and not
us> e drugs as a solution, I think you are wrong on the supply side.
>
> The fact that the drug dealers are having to smuggle the cocaine over the
b> oarder, is very indicative that the American people have rejected this
pr> oduct. We have spent billions on stopping it, and it is illegal in
every
> state and county in the country. That seems like a pretty overwhelming
reje> ction of the drug. Less than one percent of the population uses it.
>
> The demand was created by "pushers" illegally as well, and the illegal
an> d dangerous addictiveness of the product is what also keeps the
demand. We
> didn't create the demand, the demand was created for us.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
>
> --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Sunil Ramalingam
> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 8:48 AM
>
>
>
>
> Donovan,
>
> I think your premise is wrong. No one is forcing drugs on Americans. WE
h> ave created the demand. It is a DEMAND problem, not a supply problem.
>
> Sunil
>
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:06:05 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> Sunil,
>
> I took your question in a broader context.
>
> If the US was forcing cocaine into the a South America and creating
violenc> e and death in their streets, yes, they would have the right to
destroy> the crops in the US, or at least try to.
>
> Best
> Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
wro> te:
> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 3:07 PM
>
>
>
>
> Yes, Donovan, I missed the event when Central and South Americans
attac> ked the biggest things in New York.
>
> 9/11, you say? My, that's one big cover-up if they were involved.
>
> At any rate, my question remains the same. Do our actions give our
victi> ms the right to bomb us? If no, why not?
>
> Sunil
>
> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:47:50 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> Sunil
>
> They do blow "things" up here. In fact, they took out the two biggest
thi> ngs in the biggest city. Perhaps you missed that
> whole 9/11 thingy.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
wro> te:
> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:28 PM
>
>
>
>
> Donovan,
>
> Do the people we bomb have the right to try to blow up things here? If
not> , why?
>
> Sunil
>
> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:07:14 -0800
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; nickgier at roadrunner.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
>
> What Nick doesn't realize is that it isn't the government's
responsibility
> to keep people off drugs. That is the responsibility of the individual.
Onl> y you can decide not to use drugs and take responsibility for your
behavior> and decisions to use or not use drugs, and what you put in your
body.
>
> The government has made it clear to
> anyone who will listen from 5 years old to 105 years old, DON'T USE
DRUG> S. That is all they can do. They provide information to people for
free,
> and they offer free drug counseling, and help with getting off drug
addic> tion.
>
> I use to drink heavily, and smoke up to three packs of cigarettes a
day> , and I will not talk about anything else I did because this is a
public
> forum. But it was me, and me alone, that had the power to decide to
use> and stop using products abusive to my body.
>
> People think it is
> the responsibility of the government to do things for you. It is not. If
p> eople want to use drugs, they will. If they want to get off drugs,
they> will.
>
> I as a taxpayer can only do so much, and refuse to take blame for the
per> sonal decisions that people make with full knowledge of their actions
and
b> ehaviors.
>
> The Government didn't fail with drugs, only people that decided not to
ge> t off drugs fail. Only people that refuse to take personal
responsibility
a> re the ones that fail.
>
> And who really gives a damn if bombing cocaine fields in South America
make> s other nations mad. These people are doing wrong, and the US has
every
r> ight to protect themselves from people trying to do harm to our
citizens.
>
> Best Regards,
> Donovan
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, nickgier at roadrunner.com <nickgier at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
> From: nickgier at roadrunner.com
> <nickgier at roadrunner.com>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Failed Drug Policies from Nixon to Bush
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 8:51 AM
>
> Good Morning Visionaries:
>
> This is my radio commentary/column for this week. I had Ted Moffett and a
> friend who's an expert in this area look this over before I polished off
th> e
> rough draft.
>
> Ted suggested that I add the abuse of pharmaceuticals but the long
version
> was
> already approaching 2,000 words. Besides Ted has already posted some of
> the
> material here on the vision. Thanks, Ted, for your research which is
th> e best on
> the Vision on all the topics you cover.
>
> I just saw "Nixon/Frost" at the Kenworthy and I had to admit that I
> began to empathize with the most despised of all presidents, but perhaps
> that
> was because of the superb acting of Frank
> Langella.
>
> The group Law
>
>
> Enforcement
> Against Prohibition (LEAP)has an excellent video at
> <www.leap.cc/cms/index.php?name=Content&pid=28>.
>
> Nick Gier
>
> DRUG POLICY FAILURES FROM NIXON TO BUSH
>
> By Nick Gier
>
> Every one of the bastards that are out for legalizing marijuana is
Jewish.>
> What the Christ is the matter with the Jews, Bob?
> --Richard M. Nixon to Robert Haldeman
>
> Nixon is the first post-war president to declare war on drugs. He was
> determined to enforce a policy that placed marijuana in the same category
a> s
> heroin. In the early days of Nixon's war, a person caught with any
amount> of
> marijuana could be sentenced to seven years in prison.
>
> In 1971 Nixon appointed Pennsylvania Gov. Ray Shafer to chair the
National
> Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse, which unexpectedly recommended
th> at pot
> possession be decriminalized. Always coarse and obscene, Nixon lashed
ou> t
> at
> members of the
>
> Commission
> calling them
> "bastards" and
> "Jews."
>
> Since the day Nixon rejected the recommendations of the Shafer
Commission> ,
> fifteen million Americans have been arrested for marijuana charges (88
perc> ent
> for possession only), but pot dealing and smoking continue unabated.
Sinc> e 1980
> the number of drug offenders incarcerated by states increased from 6
percen> t to
> 21 percent and those in federal prisons went from 25 to 57 percent.
Sadly> , 80
> percent of all those in prison for drug offenses are either Latinos or
Afri> can
> Americans.
>
> Paramilitary SWAT teams in U.S. cities have been overly aggressive
against
> suspected drug dealers. The libertarian CATO Institute has reported that
t> hese
> units have entered the homes of 170 innocents and killed 43. The CATO
webs> ite
> also lists 23 nonviolent offenders and 25 police officers killed.
>
> Last year the U.S. spent $69 billion interfering in the lives of
> North
>
> and
> South
> Americans, supporting
> military activities and crop eradication that have
> alienated millions of people south of the border.
>
> In 2007 one of the first acts of Mexican President Felipe Calderon was to
u> se
> the army to crack down on Mexico's three major drug cartels. Calderon
used
> the army because local and regional police and many office holders had
alre> ady
> been bought off by the cartels. The results of Mexico's military
solution
> to drug smuggling have been disastrous. In the past two years an
estimated
> 8,790 people have been killed, including 800 soldiers and police
office> rs.
>
> Mexico is the transshipment point for 90 percent of the cocaine coming to
t> he
> U.S. The main source of this drug is Columbia, which has been the focus
> of U.S.
> efforts of eradication and interdiction. Since 2000 the U.S. has poured
$6
> billion dollars into Columbia, but cocaine production has still increased
>
> 4
> percent
> during that
> time.
>
> Large
> acreages of coca have been destroyed; the big cartels have been broken
> up; left-wing guerrillas are in retreat; and the streets of Bogata are
> safer.
> But the coca farmers have simply switched to smaller plots closer to the
ju> ngle
> and right-wing paramilitary units are still involved in cocaine
production
> and
> smuggling.
>
> Nixon's war on drugs have turned entire nations against us. Evo
Morales,> a
> former coca grower, is now Bolivia's president. At recent speech at the
> UN,
> Morales held up a coca leaf and spoke about a World Health Organization
(WH> O)
> study that concluded that the ingestion of coca was not harmful and that
it
> might even have some beneficial effects. When I was in Peru in 2002, my
> guide
> distributed coca leaves to our group as a remedy for altitude sickness.
>
> In 1989 I chaired the Borah Symposium on the topic "Cocaine and
> Conflict" and our
>
> keynote speaker was Ethan
>
> Nadelman. Now the head of
> the
> Drug Policy Institute, he is a leading spokesman for drug
legalization,> which
> means legal regulation, not total free use (except of marijuana) of hard
> drugs.
>
>
> Proponents of legal regulation contend that removing the illegal trade
and
> criminal gangs will have the same positive effect as the ending of
Prohibit> ion
> in 1933. A $250-350 billion business would become a source for much
needed> tax
> revenue that can be used to rebuild communities and rehabilitate those
rela> tive
> few who have been addicted to drugs.
>
> A 2007 Zogby Poll asked the following question of 1028 people: "If hard
> drugs such as heroin or cocaine were legalized, would you be likely to
us> e
> them." Only 6 answered in the affirmative.
> There are over 250 shops in the Netherlands where one can buy marijuana
> legally, but only 16 percent of the adult population has even tried
>
> cannibals,
> while 33 percent of
> Americans
> have. One commentator
> quipped that the Dutch have
> made smoking pot "uncool."
>
> Reading the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) website, one would
thin> k that
> liberalizing drug laws in Europe has been a complete failure. In England
do> ctors
> used to prescribe heroin to addicts under controlled conditions and their
> numbers stabilized at 2,000, but since that program was abolished in
19> 70 the
> number has risen to 300,000. Similar programs in Germany, Spain,
Swi> tzerland,
> and the Netherlands have proved effective.
>
> One of the most effective organizations for legal regulation of drugs is
La> w
> Enforcement against Prohibition (LEAP). Since its founding in 2002,
LEAP'> s
> membership, former police officers, DEA agents, and city
officials,> has grown to
> 5,000. These men and women have seen first hand how Nixon's war on drugs
> has devastated their communities and made
>
> criminals out of ordinary citizens.
>
>
> As long as the
> U.S. has the
> highest drug use rate in the industrialized world,
> this demand will drive the criminal drug trade and will continue to
destabi> lize
> all the countries south of the border. We should immediately un-declare
the> wars
> on drugs and terror. Police surveillance and investigation should
replace
> paramilitary over-kill. We should decriminalize the use of marijuana and
we
> should try the policy of legal regulation of all other drugs and see if
it
> works.
>
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"For a lapsed Lutheran born-again Buddhist pan-Humanist Universalist
Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself there's really no reason ever to go
to work."
- Roy Zimmerman
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